Will S+T=HLS?

[Isobel Harper]

Sansa will need to clear her name before seeking any power of her own. However, I do see her acheiving this in some manner, possibly clearing Tyrion's name of guilt in the process. If Tyrion is somehow resolved of any guilt of murder, he would be considered the heir of Casterly Rock. How ironic if Tywin's plans to control Winterfell through Sansa backfire and Sansa lays claim to Casterly Rock through Tyrion.

Oh, the sweet, sweet irony...

[Minuteman]

When Tywin talks to Tyrion about how unconsummated marriages can be set aside it is noted "with the assent of the High Septon or the Council of Faith". I don't know if this was ever done when Tywin annulled Tyrions marriage. I'm thinking no as it isn't mentioned and I doubt Tywin would bother over a simple peasant girl (if it ever became important he could simply corrupt the HS at that time so no need to spend gold needlessly). That being the case Tyrion is still married to Tysha (assuming she is found alive which I believe will happen) and thus cannot be married to Sansa. That's how I see the Sansa-Tyrion arc going down. She may yet end up controlling as Lady of the Rock temporarily until Tyrion returns from exile. I have thought it would be a very Tyrion response to tell her to rebuild Winterfell and the river lands using Lannister gold and he would refuse to divorce her unless she absolutely bankrupted him doing it.

[Isobel Harper]

^^ I think that when push comes to shove, there will be a Lannister that "just happens" to remember Tyrion's marriage to Tysha in an attempt to make the marriage null and void. Or not? Perhaps only Tywin, Tyrion, and Jaime knew of the marriage. Jaime would have a chance to speak up, but perhaps he won't if it means keeping Casterly Rock out of the hands of an ever more paranoid Cersei.

[hallam]

Absolutely yes.

They are already married, Tyrion clearly has feelings for Sansa and Tyrion is the only person in KL who has ever tried to protect her or respect her wishes or treat her as anything other than a pawn in the game of thrones.

Regardless of whether A+J=T or not, barring a heroic death, Tyrion is certain to become Hand of the King and Lord of Casterly Rock. The only question is whether he takes the throne or not. If R+L=J then there is no suitable consort left for Jon and Danny is baren so the throne will pass to Tyrion's children. Jon is still a bastard and his objection to having children still applies.

Cersei is promised to the prince and marries the king. Sansa is promised to the prince and marries Tyrion instead.

If J=A then there is an alternative, Jon can marry Arya. This then provides the ironic reversal that Sansa is expected to marry the king to be and instead ends up with the ugliest man in the kingdom (albeit the Hand) and her sister gets the King. Also a neat inversion of the twincest, Jon is not a blood relation but was treated like one.

Either way Sansa has to marry Tyrion because he is going to be the only male aristocrat who isn't a Stark left alive at the end of the books.

[hallam]

When Tywin talks to Tyrion about how unconsummated marriages can be set aside it is noted "with the assent of the High Septon or the Council of Faith". I don't know if this was ever done when Tywin annulled Tyrions marriage. I'm thinking no as it isn't mentioned and I doubt Tywin would bother over a simple peasant girl (if it ever became important he could simply corrupt the HS at that time so no need to spend gold needlessly). That being the case Tyrion is still married to Tysha (assuming she is found alive which I believe will happen) and thus cannot be married to Sansa. That's how I see the Sansa-Tyrion arc going down. She may yet end up controlling as Lady of the Rock temporarily until Tyrion returns from exile. I have thought it would be a very Tyrion response to tell her to rebuild Winterfell and the river lands using Lannister gold and he would refuse to divorce her unless she absolutely bankrupted him doing it.

Tyrion consummated his first marriage repeatedly! :eek: :eek: :eek:

In the books it is clear that Tywin has the marriage comprehensively annulled. In the show Tyrion isn't even aware that she wasn't a whore.

Now granted we could well see an arc like the one you suggest for book Tyrion certainly. In the show we are being led to believe he has feelings for Sansa though and nothing else.

I think the plot arc that will come out is Tyrion's struggle between duty and the good of the realm versus his personal happiness. And the good of the realm would require him to continue his marriage to Sansa so that the Stark/Lannister feud is settled.

Remember that at the time they are married, Sansa hated the Lannisters and everything about them. She might well have suspected Tyrion of attacking Bran. If she learns about the saddle while she is at WinterFell, her feelings may change.

[CatelynBaelish]

How does this in ANY WAY further the plot, I just do not see this happening.

[Minuteman]

Tyrion consummated his first marriage repeatedly! :eek: :eek: :eek:

In the books it is clear that Tywin has the marriage comprehensively annulled. In the show Tyrion isn't even aware that she wasn't a whore.

Now granted we could well see an arc like the one you suggest for book Tyrion certainly. In the show we are being led to believe he has feelings for Sansa though and nothing else.

I think the plot arc that will come out is Tyrion's struggle between duty and the good of the realm versus his personal happiness. And the good of the realm would require him to continue his marriage to Sansa so that the Stark/Lannister feud is settled.

Remember that at the time they are married, Sansa hated the Lannisters and everything about them. She might well have suspected Tyrion of attacking Bran. If she learns about the saddle while she is at WinterFell, her feelings may change.

The only issue I have with Tywin having Tyrion's first marriage completely annulled is that it doesn't sound plausible. An annulment requires that the HS or the Council of Faith (whatever that is) to assent to the annulment. I don't see as to how Tywin would have had the time (in the few days that Ty-Ty existed he would have to discover it, make a petition to the HS for an annulment, and receive the annulment) or the inclination to do this. He tells Tyrion it was done because Tysha is a whore and Tyrion doesn't challenge him because he believes that Tysha is a whore. I just don't think Tywin would go through with the effort (which would be embarrassing to the family) when he didn't have to. Tysha is a whore and made to disappear. If it ever became an issue he could make her dead so why bother?

[hallam]

The only issue I have with Tywin having Tyrion's first marriage completely annulled is that it doesn't sound plausible. An annulment requires that the HS or the Council of Faith (whatever that is) to assent to the annulment. I don't see as to how Tywin would have had the time (in the few days that Ty-Ty existed he would have to discover it, make a petition to the HS for an annulment, and receive the annulment) or the inclination to do this. He tells Tyrion it was done because Tysha is a whore and Tyrion doesn't challenge him because he believes that Tysha is a whore. I just don't think Tywin would go through with the effort (which would be embarrassing to the family) when he didn't have to. Tysha is a whore and made to disappear. If it ever became an issue he could make her dead so why bother?

Tywin had years to do it and every incentive to get it right. I can't see why there would be any doubt except possibly to cover it up. But there isn't any marriage registry either. So unless Tyrion finds Tysha and wants to return to her, he isn't married. The only witnesses were the priest and Tysha, neither of which has standing to challenge the hand of the king.

Now the bigger issue surely is Sansa's impending show marriage to Ramsay. I can't see how the high sparrow accepts that. But we probably find out about that soon because the trailer for the next episode suggests we have LF talking to the high sparrow.

[Petyr Patter]

Sansa will need to clear her name before seeking any power of her own. However, I do see her acheiving this in some manner, possibly clearing Tyrion's name of guilt in the process. If Tyrion is somehow resolved of any guilt of murder, he would be considered the heir of Casterly Rock. How ironic if Tywin's plans to control Winterfell through Sansa backfire and Sansa lays claim to Casterly Rock through Tyrion.

Oh, the sweet, sweet irony...

Yes, the Irony is one of the reasons I love this theory. It is the reversal of Tywin's plan and forever puts a Stark in Casterly Rock. Or, at least a Lannstark. I like to think they abandon the lion for a golden wolf. Ehem... sorry, I am starting to engage in fan writing.

When Tywin talks to Tyrion about how unconsummated marriages can be set aside it is noted "with the assent of the High Septon or the Council of Faith". I don't know if this was ever done when Tywin annulled Tyrions marriage. I'm thinking no as it isn't mentioned and I doubt Tywin would bother over a simple peasant girl (if it ever became important he could simply corrupt the HS at that time so no need to spend gold needlessly). That being the case Tyrion is still married to Tysha (assuming she is found alive which I believe will happen) and thus cannot be married to Sansa. That's how I see the Sansa-Tyrion arc going down. She may yet end up controlling as Lady of the Rock temporarily until Tyrion returns from exile. I have thought it would be a very Tyrion response to tell her to rebuild Winterfell and the river lands using Lannister gold and he would refuse to divorce her unless she absolutely bankrupted him doing it.

This has been discussed ad naseum else where. It is certainly an open possibility, but the marriage between Tyrion and Tysha had so many irregularities that it seems clear Tywin had it annulled on the vows never being valid in the first place. Hence, he did not need the High Septim to release Tysha and Tyrion from the vows, since they vows were not valid.

Alternatively, if Tywin thought the marriage could stick and one of his enemies, such as King Aerys who had already taken Jaime out of the line of succession, could use the marriage to put Tyrion and a crofter's daughter child as the future Lord of Casterly Rock, then he would have hung the girl and be done with it. Better safe then sorry.

How does this in ANY WAY further the plot, I just do not see this happening.

I do not think it furthers the plot, but it is a resolution. Think end game here, showing the Starks despite incredible hardship come back as the most prominent family in all of Westeros, with their bloodline in the Westerlands, the North, and the Iron Throne. Though that last one is a separate theory. Check out the link in my signature.