(Spoilers for book/show) Well a few theories just got confirmed/debunked...

[Salt 'n' Gravy]

In fact, the whole mutiny is a non-issue in the books if I recall, after it happens. I think it's assumed that they're slaughtered by wights and/or White Walkers.

In Bran I, aDwD, they are killed by Coldhands. Their bodies are then eaten, Coldhands giving some to Hodor, Bran, and the Reeds, while in the woods, Summer and Varamyr's former wolf pack feast.

[Salt 'n' Gravy]

What if the ww are not really the others? What if the ww is just another layer of protection agains't the others, beyond the wall. And their increased activity is really just them recruiting an army to defend agains't the others. The first Lord Commanders could've used some sort of magic to transform themselves into warriors more suited to live and fight in the lands beyond the wall, giving the Westeros a fighting chance agains't the others, where they would've had none if they all stayed human. What if the real threat is not yet uncovered... And furthermore, what if the Land of Always Winter is that because it's necessary, to protect agains't something else, something that's weakened by the cold? And the presence of humans north of the wall is what warms it up. What if they're really a protection? Agains't that which destroyed Valyria...

The wildlings are fleeing the white walkers, who are in turn fleeing something else... Just like a Russian nesting doll.

Personally, I think it would be great if Locke sees the white walkers and decides that whatever Bolton promised him doesn't matter if everybody's dead, and becomes a faithful Night's Watchmen. There's even a precedent in the books: Sweet Donnel Hill, who was one of Chett's co-conspirators but later stayed loyal to the watch at Craster's Keep.

On the main topic, we've known for a long time that the show will most likely overtake the books. This is just the first time they've revealed something critical to the structure of the world, not something that could be explained by the show and the books being their own canon, or a theory that everybody already thought canon in the first place

Expect the forums to go crazy when the show overtakes the books, and every episode of the show is 100% new material, with no way to tell what parts are true spoilers and which are storylines contrived for the sake of filling out places in the story where characters do nothing and giving viewers eye candy to look at while someone gives a long monologue.

[kiasyd]

Expect the forums to go crazy when the show overtakes the books, and every episode of the show is 100% new material, with no way to tell what parts are true spoilers and which are storylines contrived for the sake of filling out places in the story where characters do nothing and giving viewers eye candy to look at while someone gives a long monologue.

Yes... That will be an unfortunate moment for book readers. :uhoh:

[SixPence]

The wildlings are fleeing the white walkers, who are in turn fleeing something else... Just like a Russian nesting doll.

Personally, I think it would be great if Locke sees the white walkers and decides that whatever Bolton promised him doesn't matter if everybody's dead, and becomes a faithful Night's Watchmen. There's even a precedent in the books: Sweet Donnel Hill, who was one of Chett's co-conspirators but later stayed loyal to the watch at Craster's Keep.

On the main topic, we've known for a long time that the show will most likely overtake the books. This is just the first time they've revealed something critical to the structure of the world, not something that could be explained by the show and the books being their own canon, or a theory that everybody already thought canon in the first place

Expect the forums to go crazy when the show overtakes the books, and every episode of the show is 100% new material, with no way to tell what parts are true spoilers and which are storylines contrived for the sake of filling out places in the story where characters do nothing and giving viewers eye candy to look at while someone gives a long monologue.

Yeah, and then the ww have been allowing certain wildlings like Craster to live to breed for their army against whatever threat is up there. Just that now, with Craster dead, they need to go to the Seven Kingdoms for recruits again, as there are too few nights watch to take from, and the wildlings have fled the scene as well. Or is it perhaps Azor Asshai that's being contained by the cold in the north? Would also make Coldhands make more sense, wouldn't be surprised to see the show reveal the bearded ww to be Coldhands soon. He's been sort of a main character from the ww's. He's not too far off the description, he needs an elk though, and a scarf... Maybe Azor Asshai is even the last green seer, now Bran... Idk, just looking for ways the books could tie together in 2 more books here, without too many unanswered questions...

[juanml82]

Yes... That will be an unfortunate moment for book readers. :uhoh:

Not for me. I'm too impatient to wait for GRRM's writing.

Then again, I've started with the books after watching Season 1

[SpaceChampion]

Whether or not that WW was the Night's King, the mere existence of a hierarchy and our knowledge of WW ability to reanimate and puppetmaster corpses indicates their power is strongly tied to their purpose in the ASOIAF story (which of course we should have realised). That purpose is as an extreme example of the themes of power and slavery we've been dealing with throughout. Creating wights is an extreme form of slavery, because they are mindless drones. I wouldn't be surprised if the souls of the dead humans are still trapped in those wight bodies, conscious but unable to do anything but observe as the Others puppetmaster them. It's complete slavery. Thus, Dany's storyline with destroying the institution of slavery is a key component of the overall story, and any fan's wish she'd just get on with it is misplaced (though I think she will in fact get on with getting to Westeros soon in TWoW). Dany's dragons are also key representations of extreme freedom and wildness; a dragon is no slave.

I think the Others are probably not very numerous. Mance moved his people south, leaving very few babies that could be turned into Others. I think probably after infancy a child cannot be turned into an Other, so the Others will remain few unless they can get past the Wall. The Others might not actually turn out to be that big of a threat, because they might function on a master-drone nature like an insect colony. A lone hero could destroy them all simply by killing the Other's King. The point of that in the story is to show the inherent weakest of authoritarianism.

Kind of reminds me of Babylon 5, with the Others playing the role of the Vorlons, though the Vorlons were suppose to be good and represent order not slavery, and it was the Shadows of Z'ha'dum that were bad agents of chaos, not freedom.

[kiasyd]

Not for me. I'm too impatient to wait for GRRM's writing.

Then again, I've started with the books after watching Season 1

But that's the problem: what we will see in the show may not be what GRRM will write.

[Mr Fixit]

Kind of reminds me of Babylon 5, with the Others playing the role of the Vorlons, though the Vorlons were suppose to be good and represent order not slavery, and it was the Shadows of Z'ha'dum that were bad agents of chaos, not freedom.

Quick OT: Man, I really hate how the cancellation and the renewal at the last possible minute royally screwed up the Shadow War.

[BirdieStark]

Dude, always knew the babies were being turned into WW. For me it was the only possible option...

But... weren't white walkers supposed to be kinda like elfs???

[kiasyd]

Dude, always knew the babies were being turned into WW. For me it was the only possible option...

But... weren't white walkers supposed to be kinda like elfs???

Changeling is the word you're looking for. As many pointed out, GRRM re-interpreted the werewolf folklore into it's more primal, older version with the wargs, and applied the same mechanic to Others / changelings.

[Robbie Hood]

Pfft, when I look, all i see is Snow.

HAHA +1

[Ghost's Shadow]

+2, really. Laughed with it as well. :P

[ovis alba]

But that's the problem: what we will see in the show may not be what GRRM will write.

Why is that a problem? Then you get 2 stories for the price of one. :D

Dude, always knew the babies were being turned into WW. For me it was the only possible option...

But... weren't white walkers supposed to be kinda like elfs???

I assumed from the book always they were somehow "turned" but I didn't expect them to be the real deal of WW, I thought it was more like the Wights or some sort of leader for the Wights that were a little better trained because they started young and had more time to adjust to being Wights

[davos]

Until we get more confirmation on rather the crowned WW in this scene is in fact the same individual as the Night's King from the legends, I am holding out judgement. It would imply that somehow the an adult human who was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch was made into a WW. Up until this point there was reason to suspect, based on the books, that Craster's sons were turned in Others. What is being suggested here is something very different. Can an adult become a WW and if so why does it seem they not use this more often? Do they only use babies because an adult would not be socialized properly in WW culture and they made an exception for the Night's King because he had so thoroughly rejected his humanity? It also suggests, given that the basis for the NK legend occurred many hundreds of years ago, that individual white walkes/others are essentially immortal or long lived in the extreme.

All of the points above would be significant revelations that would have far reaching implications for our understanding of the story and the world of ASoIaF. I am more inclined to suspect that this was an error made by a confused summary writer at HBO, who had heard the term the Knight's King in connection to the other and made the assumption, without really understanding what he was writing, that this was then crowned Other. The fact that it was changed very quickly after it was discovered could mean this was a spoiler or that it was a mistake. While I wouldn't reject the idea out of hand, given how much it could impact our understanding in a number of areas, I think it prudent to wait until we have further confirmation either from events in the show or from future books.

[yollo21]

I don't think it really spoiled much, just confirmed what alot of us thought. But it did bring up more questions, like someone said they have a type of social hierarchy. Which is interesting, I don't beleive they speak or maybe we just don't know they do, but still they have to have some type of advanced communication if they don't flat out talk.

Also how did they KNOW the baby was there? Looked like he came an extremely long way to get the child but how did he know to go?

But Crastor left all his boys, he had about what 30 daughters? So let's just say he had 30 sons, now there all white walkers?

Does anyone remember the shadow creature that takes the babies in like the second show season? That confuses me because if the white walkers are taking the babies then can they change into shadow creatures at will? Back then first seeing it I thought it was like one of the red woman's shadow babies but I mean it's clearly the white walkers. So that leaves no other conclusion except that they can change.

So many questions now lol.....

[the sword in the night]

I don't think it really spoiled much, just confirmed what alot of us thought. But it did bring up more questions, like someone said they have a type of social hierarchy. Which is interesting, I don't beleive they speak or maybe we just don't know they do, but still they have to have some type of advanced communication if they don't flat out talk.

Also how did they KNOW the baby was there? Looked like he came an extremely long way to get the child but how did he know to go?

But Crastor left all his boys, he had about what 30 daughters? So let's just say he had 30 sons, now there all white walkers?

Does anyone remember the shadow creature that takes the babies in like the second show season? That confuses me because if the white walkers are taking the babies then can they change into shadow creatures at will? Back then first seeing it I thought it was like one of the red woman's shadow babies but I mean it's clearly the white walkers. So that leaves no other conclusion except that they can change.

So many questions now lol.....

It was a good thread until this post.... What the heck are you talking about about brother? Melly's shadow babies = others? Pretty sure that Melisander is on the fire team and the others for the ice team....

Who Bran/BR are fighting for is a toss up..

[Robbie Hood]

Also how did they KNOW the baby was there? Looked like he came an extremely long way to get the child but how did he know to go?

I answer these questions with... "becoz magic"

[Waxfoot]

Did anyone else find the Rast line to Hodor "If I was as big as you I'd be king of the world" interesting?

I don't think it means Hodor will be king of anything, but it wouldn't surprise me either if that was some type of foreshadowing about who or what exactly Hodor is.

I think this is foreshadowing Bran using Hodor's body to defeat the Craster's Keep scumbags. Next Episode.

[juanml82]

I think this is foreshadowing Bran using Hodor's body to defeat the Craster's Keep scumbags. Next Episode.

I don't know. He also needs to release Summer so he can cut off the head honcho's hand, as he'd say would happen in KL. Bonus points if he executes him himself (as Summer, I guess), as it befits to the King in the North.

[Cat of the Commons]

I don't know. He also needs to release Summer so he can cut off the head honcho's hand, as he'd say would happen in KL. Bonus points if he executes him himself (as Summer, I guess), as it befits to the King in the North.

Maybe Coldhands will show up and save them, he did kill the mutineers in the book, and that would prevent Bran and Jon from meeting up.