thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Tywin's knowledge of the Westerlands do not matter due to Robb's mobility advantage and the aforementioned strategic dilemma they wanted to force him into. Robb does not have a mobility advantage. He has 5k horse after the alienates the 1k Freys he had with him. We are told that roughly a 1/3 of Tywins 20k is horsed. It is Tywin who has the mobility advantage, as well as the home advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 If Tywin passes the fords the Tyrell men can't cross and would have to return to Mace. why can't the Tyrell men cross the ford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 He plainly didn't and Nittanian already quoted the chapters Catelyn VI and Catelyn VII.The Quotes:Catelyn: Robb should know of this [the death of Cortnay Penrose and the fall of Storm's End] at once. Do we know where he is?Vyman: At last word he was marching toward the Crag, the seat of House Westerling. If I dispatched a raven to Ashemark, it may be that they could send a rider after him.Catelyn: Do so. Robb has already left Ashemark and is riding towards the Crag before Tywin attacks the Fords and it takes him One night to take the ruinous Crag where he gets injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Robb does not have a mobility advantage. He has 5k horse after the alienates the 1k Freys he had with him. We are told that roughly a 1/3 of Tywins 20k is horsed. It is Tywin who has the mobility advantage, as well as the home advantage. So 20,000 men , 13000 infantry and 7000 horsed is more mobile than 6000 all horsed? How is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 why can't the Tyrell men cross the ford? Because the time it takes them to it to is pointless, Tywin is out of reach and in the west, and once they cross Edmure's would kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The Quotes: Robb has already left Ashemark and is riding towards the Crag before Tywin attacks the Fords and it takes him One night to take the ruinous Crag where he gets injured. he is marching on the Crag but he still would be planning for Tywin coming West. You don't break into somebodies house and not keep your eye on the door. The battle of the Crag takes place a month after the Fords . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 So 20,000 men , 13000 infantry and 7000 horsed is more mobile than 6000 all horsed? How is that possible? 5k, Robb screwed over 1k freys at the Crag by marrying Jeyne. And yes 7k is more mobile as the 7k can give chase while the 13k can set up roadblocks keeping Robb around the West. This is his realm, he will be the one receiving uptodate information from the Ravens from the surrounding settlements of Robbs movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 No it didn't, why do you keep saying that? Edmure is returning from the fords to the victory party when word of Robb taking the Crag comes in. Cateyn VI and VII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 he is marching on the Crag but he still would be planning for Tywin coming West. You don't break into somebodies house and not keep your eye on the door. The battle of the Crag takes place a month after the Fords . Provide a quote from the text to back up your argument. A map of the Westerlands Notice how close Ashemark is to the Crag, also notice how much distance there is between the Crag and Riverrun and the Red Fork, its at least 5 times the distance. We are told that they took the Crag in one night. What was Robb doing in that month? The walls of the keep [Riverrun] were thick, yet even so, they could hear the muffled sounds of revelry from the yard outside. Ser Desmond had brought twenty casks up from the cellars, and the smallfolk were celebrating Edmure's imminent return and Robb's conquest of the Crag by hoisting horns of nut-brown ale. Cat and the simultaneous news of Edmure and Robbs victories, and bear in mind it would have taken longer for news to have came from the Crag then it would have done from the Fords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Provide a quote from the text to back up your argument. A map of the Westerlands Notice how close Ashemark is to the Crag, also notice how much distance there is between the Crag and Riverrun and the Red Fork, its at least 5 times the distance. We are told that they took the Crag in one night. What was Robb doing in that month? Cat and the simultaneous news of Edmure and Robbs victories, and bear in mind it would have taken longer for news to have came from the Crag then it would have done from the Fords they were celebrating both victories but that has no bearing on when the victories took place. If the Crag happened before the Fords then Robb and the Blackfish are complete liars and scumbags and I refuse to believe that. Why is it so hard to believe that they actually had a plan to deal with Tywin coming West instead of believing they were stumbling around the west with no plan whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 No it didn't, why do you keep saying that? Edmure is returning from the fords to the victory party when word of Robb taking the Crag comes in. Cateyn VI and VII. I did not put together that timeline so I have no vested interest in it. The timeline that the Crag takes place a month after the Fords makes much more sense then the Crag actually taking place before the Fords. Edmure as the Lord of the Riverlands would know exactly what day Robb took the Crag . I'm sure they got a raven on that day or the next so he would be able to call out Robb and the Blackfish when they give him grief about the Battle of the Fords but he does not because the Crag happened after the Fords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Let me guess the reason why Tywin doesn't lose time in his march from RR to the Crag or why his troop mobilization is still faster despite having a large infantry force and no prepared "stone camp". Could it be because of....home advantage? Yeah, i'm out. Next we'll hear all about how Tywin won Robert's Rebellion single-handedly because he felt so very much at home in King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 they were celebrating both victories but that has no bearing on when the victories took place. If the Crag happened before the Fords then Robb and the Blackfish are complete liars and scumbags and I refuse to believe that. Why is it so hard to believe that they actually had a plan to deal with Tywin coming West instead of believing they were stumbling around the west with no plan whatsoever. Yes it does. Edmure had just beaten Tywin, he had not even returned to Riverrun when they started the duel celebration, if anything that suggests that the Crag happened first as it would take longer for news of the Crag to reach Riveerrun then the battle that took place on its doorstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I did not put together that timeline so I have no vested interest in it. The timeline that the Crag takes place a month after the Fords makes much more sense then the Crag actually taking place before the Fords. Edmure as the Lord of the Riverlands would know exactly what day Robb took the Crag . I'm sure they got a raven on that day or the next so he would be able to call out Robb and the Blackfish when they give him grief about the Battle of the Fords but he does not because the Crag happened after the Fords. Except he was still returning from the battle of the Fords when news reached Riverrun about Robbs victory at the Crag. Its in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Except he was still returning from the battle of the Fords when news reached Riverrun about Robbs victory at the Crag. Its in the text. We have no idea how long Edmure stayed at the Fords after the battle . He had no idea that Tywin had gone to Kings Landing so he probably was worried that Tywin would try to cross somewhere else or was waiting for the Riverlords to get lazy and try to hit them again. There was no reason for Edmure to hurry back to Riverrun so he would have made sure the Lannisters were completely gone before heading back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 We have no idea how long Edmure stayed at the Fords after the battle . He had no idea that Tywin had gone to Kings Landing so he probably was worried that Tywin would try to cross somewhere else or was waiting for the Riverlords to get lazy and try to hit them again. There was no reason for Edmure to hurry back to Riverrun so he would have made sure the Lannisters were completely gone before heading back. So? Riverrun is getting regular reports on what is happening on the Fords, Edmure is not back but Riverrun is celebrating the victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 So? Riverrun is getting regular reports on what is happening on the Fords, Edmure is not back but Riverrun is celebrating the victory. what about the fact that Edmure does not mention anything about Robb being injured at the Crag when the Battle of the Fords is going on . Wouldn't the Lord of Riverrun know the timeline of the major battles of the war and wouldn't he call out Robb and the Blackfish if your timeline is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 What about Cat getting news Robb took the Crag as Edmure returns the Fords? What about the order to guard Robb's rear? Why do ignore text just because Edmure doesn't remember things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 What about Cat getting news Robb took the Crag as Edmure returns the Fords? What about the order to guard Robb's rear? Why do ignore text just because Edmure doesn't remember things? we do not know how long it took Edmure to return from the Fords so that really does not mean anything. How could Edmure not remember when the Battle of the Crags happened ? it seems like that it was a pretty important event in the war and I find it hard to believe that Edmure would not remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 what about the fact that Edmure does not mention anything about Robb being injured at the Crag when the Battle of the Fords is going on . Wouldn't the Lord of Riverrun know the timeline of the major battles of the war and wouldn't he call out Robb and the Blackfish if your timeline is correct? We know when the battle of the Crag finished, as news reaches Riverrun while Edmure is still at the Fords. That is Fact, it happened in the books. We also know that Robb took a wound when they stormed the Crag, Robb tells Cat this himself. It happened. We also know that it took a night to storm the Crag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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