Henry Tudor Parallel (it's not Jon Snow)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Can we all just agree that Lemore isn't Ashara Dayne? :P

[Alia of the knife]

In terms of usurupation, it is one thing to conquor, but entirely different to hold that power which speaks to endurance and a legacy that is at least arguably on par with what was replaced.

There are some who have said that the Spanish had a stronger claim to the throne than that of Henry through the John of Guants first wife, Constance of Castille.

But given that the people were likely war weary by this time, seeing the struggles from Margaret, the "She Wolf of France," on down to Edward and then Henry, as well as the fact they likely would not have a "foreign" king on the throne by way of the Spanish, accepting Henry with his marriage to Elizabeth was just easier, though there were still uprisings that Henry had to put down.

The parallel to Roberts usurpation is less because Robert did at least have both Valaryan blood by way of the Targaryens, (his forebear was the bastard half brother of Aegon), and then more recently his Grandmother was a Targaryen, so while he married Cersei for wealth, he wasn't marrying her for validation hence the speculation of Neds statement that Robert had the better claim, (unless we find that Ned himself had some farflung Targaryen ancestor we haven't heard of yet).

[Alia of the knife]

Can we all just agree that Lemore isn't Ashara Dayne? :P

YES!!!! :thumbsup:

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Not to nitpick after the fact (ok, that is exactly what I'm doing) but Edward IV actually had more children than just Elizabeth, Edward and Richard. They are the three who get mentioned most often, but there were more girls in there. One was named Cecily, after Edward's mother. I forget the names of the others.

ETA: I certainly do see parallels between Edward IV and Robert.

[Alia of the knife]

Not to nitpick after the fact (ok, that is exactly what I'm doing) but Edward IV actually had more children than just Elizabeth, Edward and Richard. They are the three who get mentioned most often, but there were more girls in there. One was named Cecily, after Edward's mother. I forget the names of the others.

ETA: I certainly do see parallels between Edward IV and Robert.

No, you couldn't fault Elizabeth Woodville for not for her fertility.

[lareine]

Thats possible as well, but I think it also depends upon if Serra is in disguise as well, which I think very probable. If she has the traditional Valaryan looks, then dying her hair dark makes as much sense as YG doing so, and Tyrion may not make that connection, particularly if the locket is of a much younger version of herself.

I love your theory of Serra as a racier version of 'My Lady the Kings Mother' :)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Not to nitpick after the fact (ok, that is exactly what I'm doing) but Edward IV actually had more children than just Elizabeth, Edward and Richard. They are the three who get mentioned most often, but there were more girls in there. One was named Cecily, after Edward's mother. I forget the names of the others.

ETA: I certainly do see parallels between Edward IV and Robert.

Oh yeah, he and Elizabeth Woodville had a shit ton of kids. Those three, a girl and a boy who died very young (Margaret and George), and a few more girls who lived longer (Bridget, Cecily, Mary, Anne and Catherine). Not to mention that he had at least a few bastards, and she had two sons from her first marriage. Perfect storm of fertility there. By the end it must have been like a gumball machine. :P

[Alia of the knife]

I love your theory of Serra as a racier version of 'My Lady the Kings Mother' :)

Serra Regina :)

[lareine]

Oh yeah, he and Elizabeth Woodville had a shit ton of kids. Those three, a girl and a boy who died very young (Margaret and George), and a few more girls who lived longer (Bridget, Cecily, Mary, Anne and Catherine). Not to mention that he had at least a few bastards, and she had two sons from her first marriage. Perfect storm of fertility there. By the end it must have been like a gumball machine. :P

Haha! My avatar's amused by your description of her :)

[Lord Damian]

It is amazing out of all of those children by Edward, Elizabeth Woodville only had the two princes in the tower.

[James Arryn]

Few points:

Warbeck may have actually been who he claimed to be, or at least of some Plantagenet stock. It's worth noting that Richard's sister supported his claim, and that he bore a striking resemblance to Edward IV. He did confess to being an imposter, but so would most when 'put to the question'.

It's interesting to note that while his imprisonment was of varying severity, the one thing he was absolutely denied at all times was sleeping with his wife, who was often housed nearby.

[Alia of the knife]

Few points:

Warbeck may have actually been who he claimed to be, or at least of some Plantagenet stock. It's worth noting that Richard's sister supported his claim, and that he bore a striking resemblance to Edward IV. He did confess to being an imposter, but so would most when 'put to the question'.

It's interesting to note that while his imprisonment was of varying severity, the one thing he was absolutely denied at all times was sleeping with his wife, who was often housed nearby.

Because they did not want him to sire a son?

I did hear that he may have been "of the blood."

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Few points:

Warbeck may have actually been who he claimed to be, or at least of some Plantagenet stock. It's worth noting that Richard's sister supported his claim, and that he bore a striking resemblance to Edward IV. He did confess to being an imposter, but so would most when 'put to the question'.

It's interesting to note that while his imprisonment was of varying severity, the one thing he was absolutely denied at all times was sleeping with his wife, who was often housed nearby.

By Richard you mean Richard III, right?

I've seen the idea tossed around that Warbeck was a Plantagenet bastard or even Edward IV's own bastard from his time on the continent. I've never seen a serious argument that he actually was the Duke of York.

[James Arryn]

Because they did not want him to sire a son?

I did hear that he may have been "of the blood."

Yeah, I'd assume nipping the bud was the point. He was often allowed to eat at banquets, to walk freely, etc....but NO SEX! Seems a trifle suspicious.

Another point worth making is the idea that the Wars of the Roses ended with Bosworth. That's Tudor spin. Some of the largest and bloodiest battles followed Bosworth, but Henry VI wanted to be seen as universally approved and the peacemaker, so that's how the story gets told.

[James Arryn]

By Richard you mean Richard III, right?

I've seen the idea tossed around that Warbeck was a Plantagenet bastard or even Edward IV's own bastard from his time on the continent. I've never seen a serious argument that he actually was the Duke of York.

Margaret of York publicly proclaimed him her brother and never retracted that statement, and almost no one from the time thought Warbeck's confession was pure as driven snow, in that it was obtained by torture. There were many variants of whose son, and of which kind of legitimacy he was, but the one person in the best place to be able to identify him as her brother said that's who he was.

Hard to say. The Princes in the Tower is a puzzler from any angle, so this one doesn't seem remarkable by being a head-scratcher. I haven't heard one version of what happened that makes much sense.

[Chatty Duelist]

Henry Tudor = Aegon VI. I dare you to say otherwise, in fact, i double dare you!

[LordStoneheart]

I thought Daenerys was the parallel of Henry VII even down to their arms/sigils.

[James Arryn]

Henry Tudor = Aegon VI. I dare you to say otherwise, in fact, i double dare you!

He can't be. Aegon sounds fairly interesting and has demonstrated physical courage. Henry VI was as interesting as a tax return. I mean, my God but he was dull. I'd cite examples, but neither of us would get through them awake.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Margaret of York publicly proclaimed him her brother and never retracted that statement, and almost no one from the time thought Warbeck's confession was pure as driven snow, in that it was obtained by torture. There were many variants of whose son, and of which kind of legitimacy he was, but the one person in the best place to be able to identify him as her brother said that's who he was.

Hard to say. The Princes in the Tower is a puzzler from any angle, so this one doesn't seem remarkable by being a head-scratcher. I haven't heard one version of what happened that makes much sense.

Margaret of York was Richard, Duke of York's aunt, not his sister. That's why I tried to clarify which Richard you meant. And if I remember my timeline correctly, Margaret had gone off to Burgundy before Richard was even born, and was still living there when he died. So I think it's kind of a stretch to say she'd be able to recognize the actual boy. The Plantagenet features, maybe, but that's not the same thing. She also spent the later part of her life trying to promote the Yorkist cause against the Tudors, so it wouldn't surprise me if by that time she was backing any horse than seemed viable.

I like to think of her as Jon Connington with boobs.

[Chatty Duelist]

He can't be. Aegon sounds fairly interesting and has demonstrated physical courage. Henry VI was as interesting as a tax return. I mean, my God but he was dull. I'd cite examples, but neither of us would get through them awake.

Bring it, my body is ready.