The experience of Meereen

[Wmarshal]

This. Meereen is full of hurtles that Westeros simply wouldn't have. In Westeros she'll mostly just have to conquer it and the ruling will be pretty straight forward.

Spies, religious orders and scheming lords, that is all in Westeros just cranked to 11.

[Veraxes Blackfyre]

All she learnt was - "The queen of rabbits must wear floppy ears"

[Sir Lee knot]

I'm sure that's what Robert thought, too.

Was Robert reaaaaally that bad? It's a given that he put the Kingdom in debt but he never attended small counsel meetings which made Jon Arryn do most of the ruling so other then being lazy was he really that bad? It's still ten times better then many previous kings.

[Talleyrand]

This. Meereen is full of hurtles that Westeros simply wouldn't have. In Westeros she'll mostly just have to conquer it and the ruling will be pretty straight forward.

Cause Westeros never has rebellions, conspiracies and power plays right?

[HexMachina]

Cause Westeros never has rebellions, conspiracies and power plays right?

Westeros wouldnt require a complete cultural and economic change, unlike Slavers Bay

[Mourneblade]

Was Robert reaaaaally that bad? It's a given that he put the Kingdom in debt but he never attended small counsel meetings which made Jon Arryn do most of the ruling so other then being lazy was he really that bad? It's still ten times better then many previous kings.

Robert was only bad in that he was the absent King, who bankrupt the realm (yes that actually makes him horrible but a different kind I guess lol). His ability to answer injustice with mercy however was pretty amazing. It was naive in some cases like Balon Greyjoy, but it showed he was truly merciful, and made that part of the realm better for that, just not wise, a horrible manager so to speak.

As to what Dany is learning, she is hopefully learning that you have to be merciful with your enemies. You cannot win a PR campaign when you begin your rule by executing 163 random lords. Justice is one thing, but random killing of those, not necessarily, involved with the crucifying of the 163 is not justice. Also there are somethings you can compromise on, but others you should not. Compromise for its own sake is just plain unwise. Hopefully she will be able to piece that together.

The fighting pits were something she should have never been opposed to. Yes its not ethical, or moral, but it gives the populous a traditional escape from reality. Especially when all the fighters spoke to it as well. Yes free them, let free people choose gamble their lives, for sport, so be it.

Marrying one of the locals was also a horrible idea. Yes she should have allowed one or two of their ruling class to have a voice, but she should taken most of their advice with a grain of salt. She should have created enough nobles, out of some of the most respected and intelligent former slaves, to dilute their overall traditional authority, as well as to do a real investigation into the houses that were responsible for the 163, and other cruel atrocities. That is justice, and that would have been more easily accepted.

Anyways someone mentioned that trying to rule Meereen, was a political science worst case scenario, it absolutely is/was. How she manages to bring it all back together, or doesn't manage to before she heads to Westeros will speak volumes on how ready she is to rule.

[joluoto2]

Robert was only bad in that he was the absent King, who bankrupt the realm (yes that actually makes him horrible but a different kind I guess lol). His ability to answer injustice with mercy however was pretty amazing. It was naive in some cases like Balon Greyjoy, but it showed he was truly merciful, and made that part of the realm better for that, just not wise, a horrible manager so to speak.

As to what Dany is learning, she is hopefully learning that you have to be merciful with your enemies. You cannot win a PR campaign when you begin your rule by executing 163 random lords. Justice is one thing, but random killing of those, not necessarily, involved with the crucifying of the 163 is not justice. Also there are somethings you can compromise on, but others you should not. Compromise for its own sake is just plain unwise. Hopefully she will be able to piece that together.

The fighting pits were something she should have never been opposed to. Yes its not ethical, or moral, but it gives the populous a traditional escape from reality. Especially when all the fighters spoke to it as well. Yes free them, let free people choose gamble their lives, for sport, so be it.

Marrying one of the locals was also a horrible idea. Yes she should have allowed one or two of their ruling class to have a voice, but she should taken most of their advice with a grain of salt. She should have created enough nobles, out of some of the most respected and intelligent former slaves, to dilute their overall traditional authority, as well as to do a real investigation into the houses that were responsible for the 163, and other cruel atrocities. That is justice, and that would have been more easily accepted.

Anyways someone mentioned that trying to rule Meereen, was a political science worst case scenario, it absolutely is/was. How she manages to bring it all back together, or doesn't manage to before she heads to Westeros will speak volumes on how ready she is to rule.

I think Dany will draw all the wrong lessons. She tried to be merciful, and in her mind that didn't work (although she actually got what she wanted, she doesn't know things fell apart in Mereen when she left).

[Mourneblade]

I think Dany will draw all the wrong lessons. She tried to be merciful, and in her mind that didn't work (although she actually got what she wanted, she doesn't know things fell apart in Mereen when she left).

You could very well be right. I was not suggesting that she will learn the right way or the wrong way.... We still need to see the conclusion of Meereen to make a solid judgement, one way or the other.

[The Mother of The Others]

Red God association destroyed any bit of chance left for the common folk to accept Stannis as their king. He is a "demon-worshipper" in the eyes of common people. After Dany takes Volantis, Benerro will boost her already swollen ego to messianic proportions. That will end up very bad for Dany in Westeros.

The Faith is staggering. Their base has taken a huge destabilizing hit. The war wiped out the grass roots of the religion, the hamlet believer, the happy go lucky farmer who saw his world wiped out while the gods were ineffectual. The centralized Faith is also going to be against the ropes when Cersei starts boxing them in the capital to get her revenge as she becomes a frightening figure to take back what stature she lost in the nude parade. The stock of fire gods rises during long winters. The idea of a fire-based religion gains appeal as something more appropriate to be doing with one's prayers when the usual gods don't have any answer for the monsters that have come knocking in the cold. The Red God may be what puts Stannis or Daenerys over the top. It'll be like they're hip, like they have their finger on the pulse of the people.

[Mourneblade]

The Faith is staggering. Their base has taken a huge destabilizing hit. The war wiped out the grass roots of the religion, the hamlet believer, the happy go lucky farmer who saw his world wiped out while the gods were ineffectual. The centralized Faith is also going to be against the ropes when Cersei starts boxing them in the capital to get her revenge as she becomes a frightening figure to take back what stature she lost in the nude parade. The stock of fire gods rises during long winters. The idea of a fire-based religion gains appeal as something more appropriate to be doing with one's prayers when the usual gods don't have any answer for the monsters that have come knocking in the cold. The Red God may be what puts Stannis or Daenerys over the top. It'll be like they're hip, like they have their finger on the pulse of the people.

I disagree with this to a point. The faith has become stronger through the war, not weaker, and they have been given the right to arm themselves. Much of the blame of this war can be laid at the hands of those who are not of the faith. The Old Gods of the North, the Red God, and the Drowned God, are, in the minds of the faithful, the ones responsible for this war to begin with.

Association with a different god will only work if the faith implodes, and as it stands now, that is not happening. Someone worshiping a different god other than the Seven, will not be able to rule, at this time, effectively.

[Talleyrand]

Staggering? Its got a huge base of support, a militant arm and a genuinely fervent leader - i call that being on the upswing not staggering

[The Mother of The Others]

Stronger army. But less stable. The Faith is twitchy right now, ready to overreact, miscalculate and march themselves off a cliff by making a fatal mistake. They wouldn't have had the opportunity to commit themselves to a fatal mistake before they re-armed and were still playing.... Niiiiiice. But now that they're armed, they're ready to.... meet someone better armed in battle and lose. The grand septon has already made his fatal mistake by angering Cersei and then letting her live. That'll do the faith in politically. Militarily, they'll make a battlefield mistake and that'll be it.

Also, the little towns have been uprooted, along with the septs. That's why all the septons are homeless wanderers who showed up dirty and dingy in the capital to complain. That's not a position of increased strength. That's what I said it was, a destabilized religion closer to toppling than it's been in a long while.

[Mourneblade]

Stronger army. But less stable. The Faith is twitchy right now, ready to overreact, miscalculate and march themselves off a cliff by making a fatal mistake. They wouldn't have had the opportunity to commit themselves to a fatal mistake before they re-armed and were still playing.... Niiiiiice. But now that they're armed, they're ready to.... meet someone better armed in battle and lose.

Also, the little towns have been uprooted, along with the septs. That's why all the septons are homeless wanderers who showed up dirty and dingy in the capital to complain. That's not a position of increased strength. That's what I said it was, a destabilized religion closer to toppling than it's been in a long while.

Those are the kinds of hardships that strengthens the faith, especially if, in their minds, the root cause is another religion. Its those kinds of hardships that has allowed the faith to gather and arm themselves.

[The Mother of The Others]

If they're still around in 50 years, then yes these events will have strengthened them. It could still go either way, though. As of now it's just an attempt to strengthen themselves. And the reason they're doing it is because they're in bad shape! They wanted to re-arm because they felt a need to defend themselves. And they were justified in feeling this way because things aren't going their way. Religions aren't eternal, and the winds of change are blowing smoky air from the East.

[Mithras]

I agree that Faith became stronger after the Wot5K. I believe after Margaery is convicted guilty in the trial, Tyrells and the Faith will spill blood in the KL. Tyrells will be seen as going against the gods. Also Euron will do some real damage in the Reach, possibly sacking even Highgarden. Tyrells will lose all the positive points they have and there will be a great power vacuum left only to be filled by fAegon. I always say that Varys is in a complete control of the Faith. I believe he designed this sparrow movement. But whether the Faith is in the hands of Varys or not, every single thing they are doing is somehow paving the way for the arrival of fAegon. Even LF was schocked about how quickly the Great Western Alliance was falling apart.

[The Mother of The Others]

They're looking after their interests more aggressively by becoming a real player..... in the game of thrones. Which brings new dangers. Cersei will be pushing back, right over that cliff I mentioned, and in response the Faith will probably throw their support behind Aegon. How many of us believe Aegon and his backers will be living at the end of this, because I thought I was in the minority on that. So when Aegon and his Seven square off against the other fire and ice claimants, advantage fire and ice pretenders! (due to the title of the series).

[Mourneblade]

If they're still around in 50 years, then yes these events will have strengthened them. It could still go either way, though. As of now it's just an attempt to strengthen themselves. And the reason they're doing it is because they're in bad shape! They wanted to re-arm because they felt a need to defend themselves. And they were justified in feeling this way because things aren't going their way. Religions aren't eternal, and the winds of change are blowing smoky air from the East.

They're looking after their interests more aggressively by becoming a real player..... in the game of thrones. Which brings new dangers. Cersei will be pushing back, right over that cliff I mentioned, and in response the Faith will probably throw their support behind Aegon. How many of us believe Aegon and his backers will be living at the end of this, because I thought I was in the minority on that. So when Aegon and his Seven square off against the other fire and ice claimants, advantage fire and ice preteneders! (due to the title of the series).

These things are nothing new to the Faith. They have survived much harsher situations over the course of the thousands of years they have been around. This is a good thing for Dany so long as she does not embrace the Red God.

[Mithras]

Of course Dany will destroy fAegon. But that does not mean that the common folk will flock to her and her Red God. I think Dany will win the Dance but not the common people.

[Mourneblade]

Of course Dany will destroy fAegon. But that does not mean that the common folk will flock to her and her Red God. I think Dany will win the Dance but not the common people.

I do not see her buying into the whole Red God thing even if she is the red god's champion. Tyrion will make sure of that, that at least her image will not be going that way.

[The Mother of The Others]

Dragons the Faith can't ally itself with would be something new. Last time they were like, "Uh, we're coming out in favor of this dragon riding guy!" Stormy R'holls out the red carpet when she arrives? Faithy be in a pickle.

If she insane then the world's probably better off with the Seven winning, but they're going to be some woozy punch-drunk gods who can hardly stand up on their own feet, so it'll be close. The Seven may get some help from all of the factors that'll conspire against Danny which people love to make lists of. But then if Stan R'holls over the hill to seize Rome? The Faith is tired and outnumbered and gets pinballed back and forth between redgodders like how those SNL party guys used to victimize some hapless person on the dancefloor (at the Roxbury?)