Lummel Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 ...But fuck the Tories for joining up with racists. iirc there was already controversy because of the Latvian party in the ECR which has been involved in ceremonies honouring veterans of, and those who died while serving in, the Waffen SS. I'm not sure that bringing parties with racist views into the group is worse, isn't it more of the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Woodpecker of West Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Baltic Countries allied with 3rd Reich mostly to seek protection against Soviets. I believe that it's better option than being ideological racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Once the Tories left the EPP there weren't many non racists they could align with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennis of the Brown Shield Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Baltic Countries allied with 3rd Reich mostly to seek protection against Soviets. I believe that it's better option than being ideological racist. Yeah, as did Finland. Not much else to do considering that the West wasn't going to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Baltic Countries allied with 3rd Reich mostly to seek protection against Soviets. I believe that it's better option than being ideological racist. Quite. But there is a difference between 1941-45 and today. Are you happy that you can draw a line between that service and ideological racism, and between honouring that service and accepting those racist assumptions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Honest question: is there a document somewhere that tries to collate racist policies (or suggestions for racist policies) formulated by the parties in question? Hereby I mean racist in the narrow sense: policies that aim to treat people differently based on their ethnicity (in particular, but not restricted to, policies that advocated certain racially defined groups to be treated worse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Woodpecker of West Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yeah, as did Finland. Not much else to do considering that the West wasn't going to help. Technically, West helped you ;) Just this evil skull-and-hakenkreutz West ;) Quite. But there is a difference between 1941-45 and today. Are you happy that you can draw a line between that service and ideological racism, and between honouring that service and accepting those racist assumptions? I would be furious if Germans do something like this (just like I would gladly drop some nukes on Russians making parades for frikkin' Red Army) because they started this whole unholy mess. Little nations catch between Godzilla and Cylons fighting - nah, I'm fine with them. They weren't innocent, but while Big Baddies are still trying to throw at least part of the blame around, I'm fine with them and their local Waffen SS (and mind that especially Lithuanians made some nasty things to my fellow folk, but still first things first). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recovering forum addict Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Bringing this thread back from the dead for a bit of happy news: Farage's EFDD group in the European Parliament no longer exists after the Latvian MEP Iveta Grigule has left, leaving the group without representatives from the minimum of seven countries. This makes UKIP, Sverigedemokraterna, and a slew of other unsavoury characters groupless, at least for now, which means less money, less speaking time, and less (formal) influence.Farage's eurosceptic EP group falls apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Opist, thank your for bringing this up. (First, I don’t understand how this in itself is a source of happiness, no matter where you’re standing politically.) I tried to read up on this a few days ago, and didn’t get very far. 1. I had difficulties finding an explanation for the circumstances behind Grigule’s exit. If it is really true that the president himself “bought her out” by making a chairmanship contingent on her leaving EFDD then I am seriously appalled by that. This is very far from how I think a parliamentary president should act. (The description may be false or biased, so I’m suspending judgement.) 2. I’ve tried to understand the rules behind group formation, but: Can’t we now get the group I was predicting a few months ago? FN from France, UKIP from the UK and a bunch of analogues from the smaller countries (SD, DF, PVV, VB ) in larger eurosceptic and restricted-immigration group? My understanding is that this group didn’t come into existence because of Farage’s hesitance towards FN, but maybe they want to rethink that now? In particular because FN looks stronger and stronger with every month? The entire bloc has gained a lot of traction over the summer (including SD’s selection result in Sweden)… Exciting times in any case. Politics is really, really interesting currently, both internationally and domestic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 2. I’ve tried to understand the rules behind group formation, but: Can’t we now get the group I was predicting a few months ago? FN from France, UKIP from the UK and a bunch of analogues from the smaller countries (SD, DF, PVV, VB ) in larger eurosceptic and restricted-immigration group? Unlikely. UKIP have made efforts to dissociate themselves from FN (although Farage has praised Le Pen) because they believe FN is anti-Semitic and (whatever else you might say about them) UKIP generally are not. It would also make UKIP look more 'fringe' at a time when they're doing their best to appear mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recovering forum addict Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Well, they didn't want SD either until they realised that they needed them to form a group. I doubt that presumptive UKIP voters would be put off by Front National. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Well, they didn't want SD either until they realised that they needed them to form a group. I doubt that presumptive UKIP voters would be put off by Front National. Pretty sure they would. FN is perceived as beyond the pale, in the UK: actual racists, not the I'm-not-racist-but position of UKIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Pretty sure they would. FN is perceived as beyond the pale, in the UK: actual racists, not the I'm-not-racist-but position of UKIP. In addition, FN is quite far to the left on economic issues, which many in UKIP find unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 My point is that with the popular support Marine Le Pen is currently enjoying, the guilt-by-association-with-ostracised-party argument must have less and less weight. In particular, the prospective voter base seems to simply not care. (Same for SD.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 My point is that with the popular support Marine Le Pen is currently enjoying, the guilt-by-association-with-ostracised-party argument must have less and less weight. In particular, the prospective voter base seems to simply not care. (Same for SD.) You might assume so, but I don't think it will be the case. The ingrained associations in the UK between the names 'Le Pen' and 'Front National' and racism and anti-semitism are very strong. The fact that many French people voted for them will not necessarily decrease that association significantly. It would take a more radical breakthrough for that to happen. UK voters are simply not exposed to the French media, so any efforts Le Pen is taking to appear more moderate won't have any effect: and I can't see anyone, least of all Nigel Farage (who has far too much on his plate already) taking the time to try to change the public image of the FN in UK voters' minds. If you have evidence that prospective UKIP voters wouldn't be put off by an alliance with the FN, that would be interesting to see. But Farage's overriding goal, at present, is to appear moderate and reasonable to appeal to Tory and Labour voters fed up with Europe. Allying with a woman who most of those voters see as much more radical than he is would work against that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 OK, thanks, Mormont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Apparently Farage may have approached Martin Sonneborn in an attempt to reform the group. That seems like a rather desperate move, since the result is utterly predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recovering forum addict Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Looks like Farage wants to re-form his group by taking in a Polish MEP that was deemed too extreme for Le Pen's group - Robert Iwaszkiewicz from the anti-universal suffrage, pro-domestic violence KNP. But don't worry: “It’s not true the KNP is sexist. We're a party of gentlemen with very good manners. We appreciate women and we treat them in a very gentlemanly way”, he added.Far-right Polish MEP saves Farage group Le Pen announced in late May that her National Front party of 24 MEPs would team up with allies from the Netherlands' Freedom party, Austria’s Freedom party, Italy’s Lega Nord, and Belgium’s Vlaams Belang. [...] In the end, the far right faction was short of two members.Poland’s Congress of the New Right (KNP) had earlier been cited as a possible partner.But views held by KNP leader Janusz Korwin-Mikke are said to be too extreme for the anti-immigrant Wilders. The Polish 72-year old anti-establishment leader reportedly wants to deprive women the right to vote.Le Pen fails to create far-right faction (2014-06-24) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ah, he's the guy who wants an absolutist monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.