Northernmonkey Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 This gets brought up fairly regularly, and I often hear people say how hard it will be for Sansa to get her marriage annulled, and that she'll have to appeal to the high septon, but I disagree with this. The North don't even follow the seven, so why would they care what the high septon thinks? If it suits the Northern Lords then they will just declare the Sansa-Tyrion marriage invalid and there will be no need to go to the high septon, and Sansa will be free to marry Harry (or someone else). It's also worth noting that Sansa probably still has her maidenhead, so if the marriage wasn't consummated it will make the whole process a lot easier. So basically I think this "she'll have to appeal to the high septon" stuff is rubbish. If Sansa marrying Harry (or someone else) is necessary for political reasons then the lords of The North can just declare the Sansa/Tyrion marriage invalid and remarry her without the high septons approval. It's not like the High Septon is going to send an army up North to stop the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 But in what faith does Harry believe in? Furthermore, not accepting marriages done in the Faith of the Seven will wreak havoc in the North. It would make the Manderlys (and maybe a couple others) bastards. Bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 You're right, Harry probably does follow the Seven. But even so, do you have to appeal to the High Septon every time anyone in Westeros wants a marriage annulled? I think they could probably just get a Septa to examine Sansa's maidenhead and have the marriage annulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 You're right, Harry probably does follow the Seven. But even so, do you have to appeal to the High Septon every time anyone in Westeros wants a marriage annulled? I think they could probably just get a Septa to examine Sansa's maidenhead and have the marriage annulled. Yes, you do. You need a full trial conducted by the HS or the Council of the Most Devout judging the marriage invalid from the start. That's one reason why it's almost never done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khalhotpie Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 -maidenhead still intact-If i recall tyrions trial they openly tell all of westeros it wasnt consumated (or was that just in the show id need reread)-It may not stand as no member of her house consented to the marriage either and she was a hostage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bittersteel Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Yeah wasn't consummated and in their eyes he might be dead. Shouldn't be too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I disagree. You make it sound like annuling a marriage when you follow the Old Gods is easier than when you follow the Faith of the Seven. I actually think it's the other way around. The followers of the Old Gods do not have a religious hierarchy. They "deal" with the gods directly. But this means that the few rules they have are absolute. The moment you get a hierarchy, a highly organized religion, there is always the possibility of interpreting the rules, of finding exceptions, etc. Most importantly, you have someone with authority to come up with those exceptions. The followers of the Old Gods have no such thing. It's just them before unyielding gods. It is quite likely they have no way to anul a marriage, or that the concept of annulment itself does not make sense in this religous context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetgirl205 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 It can be easily annulled, but will it be? Littlefinger is in the middle of one of his plots. It doesn't seem like Sansa is really wanting to get remarried soon. Right now, she is using the fact that she is already married as protection. Of course, that can change fast in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetgirl205 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Tyrion could turn up dead soon too. No annulment necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Yes, Sansa will be absolutely thrilled about the idea to be free for someone's next marriage plot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetgirl205 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Yes, Sansa will be absolutely thrilled about the idea to be free for someone's next marriage plot!Exactly. Sansa will become a reluctant player in the game. One of her first major moves will be to make herself either a lovematch, or not marry at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Estellion Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 This was mentioned as a sidenote in another thread. I think that the easiest way to annull their marriage would be to bring up that Tyrion had already been married. After all his marriage to Tysha was totally legit. Since nobody knows if she has died he is officially still a married man so he was never able to marry young Lady Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks Bane Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I had always thought of the Sept marriages the legal way of going about marrying in addition to ceremonial for the believers. I had kind of assumed the Northerners who believed in the Old Gods still had Faith of Seven weddings because the Faith of the Seven is the official religion of Westeros. Also, it's called a hymen. You guys don't have to say "maidenhead" just because it's written in the books. We don't live in a shire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I had always thought of the Sept marriages the legal way of going about marrying in addition to ceremonial for the believers. I had kind of assumed the Northerners who believed in the Old Gods still had Faith of Seven weddings because the Faith of the Seven is the official religion of Westeros. it is the legal way. very legal. the op is expressing their wish not the facts. Also, it's called a hymen. You guys don't have to say "maidenhead" just because it's written in the books. We don't live in a shire. no reason not to call it a maidenhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I had always thought of the Sept marriages the legal way of going about marrying in addition to ceremonial for the believers. I had kind of assumed the Northerners who believed in the Old Gods still had Faith of Seven weddings because the Faith of the Seven is the official religion of Westeros. Nope, it's one of the legal ways, not the only one. In fact, the legal part of the marriage is the cloaking ceremony held in front of a religious authority (choose a Septon, a Heart Tree, a Drowned Man or recently a Red Priest as it suits you) and some witnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks Bane Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 it is the legal way. very legal. the op is expressing their wish not the facts. I understand that, I was just remarking on how there doesn't seem to be weddings for believers of the Old Gods anyway, much less a legal proceeding for it. So annulling Tyrion and Sansa's marriage on that basis doesn't seem possible. no reason not to call it a maidenhead. (shudder) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks Bane Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Nope, it's one of the legal ways, not the only one. In fact, the legal part of the marriage is the cloaking ceremony held in front of a religious authority (choose a Septon, a Heart Tree, a Drowned Man or recently a Red Priest as it suits you) and some witnesses. I have zero recollection of a non-Fo7 weddings in Westeros taking place in the books, so color me corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I understand that, I was just remarking on how there doesn't seem to be weddings for believers of the Old Gods anyway, much less a legal proceeding for it. So annulling Tyrion and Sansa's marriage on that basis doesn't seem possible. marriage for those who follow the old gods is done by exchanging the cloaks in front of a weirwood tree. and yes, i haven't heard of any different way of annulling a marriage done this way. however, we've seen the lord of winterfell marry in a sept so there is absolutely no reason to believe such a wedding would be considered invalid in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I have zero recollection of a non-Fo7 weddings in Westeros taking place in the books, so color me corrected. Ned&Cat (both ways), Robb&Jeyne (both ways), Sigorn&Alys (Red Faith, probably followed up by Old Gods), Ramsay&FArya (Old Gods) confirmed, Ironborn strongly implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 Also, it's called a hymen. You guys don't have to say "maidenhead" just because it's written in the books. We don't live in a shire. I guess it's because I feel a bit weird talking about a young girl's hymen. I know it's stupid but I'd rather call it a maidenhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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