Proof that Euron is NOT Daario (Spoilers ASOS)

[Steelborn]

Seriously, that requires proof?

This /closethread.

[JonSnow4President]

If there's one thing I've learned, people will never let a little thing like proof get in the way of their fanfiction. We're all guilty of it to lesser degrees, but some people just CAN'T seem to realize that an unsupported fan fiction doesn't deserve to be considered a theory.

[Sword of the Morgan]

The Euron Daario thing is not one I can get on board with. It's just too much.

[AdmiralKyrd]

-Redacted-

[JonSnow4President]

Thing is, if there was actually proof against it then almost no one would think its possible. There's... not. There is a pretty solid pile of items that make it plausible, albeit unlikely. They're either evidence or coincidence, but they are there, and more coincidences than you would expect if it wasn't possibly real.

If you were to craft a story that hid a character in plain sight in ASOIAF then you would use unreliable point of views:

Victarion - "dumb as a stump" -GRRM

Dany - rose-colored infatuation

Aeron - he's not all there in the head

with the reliable narrators/characters leaving the area of evidence:

Asha - disdains Euron but has her head on her shoulders. She is never the POV that interacts with Euron. We only see Euron from Vic and Aeron.

Jorah - is knowledgeable and skeptical about anyone around Dany. He was sent off.

and place the chapters out of chronological order. Whether or not the Euron/Daario theory is accurate, GRRM has placed all three items in play here dealing with two very odd characters.

Regardless, people are not supposed to see the most interesting premonitions until after the facts or it would ruin the surprise. GRRM wants to plant things in the book for readers to pick-up by re-reading the book, so after you read TWOW and go back to ADWD things jump out at you like they were present the whole time. You can see the same things in ACOK, ASOF, AFFC just reading them back, especially things hinting at the Red Wedding. Of course, you wouldn't really see those things in ACOK if you hadn't already read ASOS; that's the point. He gives the reader a broken puzzle and provides the necessary links for understanding in the next book.

Euron/Daario is just one of many attempts to look at the text, see the puzzles, and attempt to figure out the links without having the necessary pieces. It requires incredible attention to the novels and logical thought, the exact opposite of fanatical fanfiction. GRRM is a master craftsman who writes things for a reason, whether we see them accurately purposed or not. There are reasons the last two ASOIAF books took twelve years to come out.

I don't care how many coincidences there are between the two characters, until Martin hints that time travel or air travel is possible for Euron, even adjusting for non-chronological chapters doesn't allow Euron to move that quickly.

[AdmiralKyrd]

-Redacted-

[Pod The Impaler]

Seriously, that requires proof?

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

[1] This has nothing to do with the theory being right or wrong. Suppose they are different people? We STILL cannot figure out exactly what they are up to or answer any of your questions above. We know Euron must have been in the vicinity of Slavers Bay when he found out about Dany. So why did he return to the Iron Islands instead of going straight to Dany? How do you answer that question even if he is NOT Daario?

[2] Ditto. Assume Daario and Euron are different people. We still do not know why that crazy Euron threw his dragon's egg in the sea instead of bringing it to Dany. One explanation may (possibly) be that he did this before he found out about Dany.

[3] I very much doubt Daario thinks he can claim Dany as his bride without a larger army to back him up. And I don't think the answer changes that much if Daario is Euron.

[4] Daario has not touched her since the marriage. And the dirty look he gave her after her "I command you to futter me" joke suggests he does not intend to permit their next encounter to be on the same terms. Which is pretty much how I would expect Euron to feel about it.

[5] I don't get it. Did I not already answer this? Or am I missing something. ALL Dany's chapter in ASOS are before the other chapters at the midpoint of ASOS. After the last Dany chapter in ASOS, he sails home, and arrives in time for Balon's death.

1. Ok, then, no talk about love. I can respect that. Take that argument out of the list! :)

2. So he threw the egg at the sea before mid-ACOK, right? Because in mid-ACOK the news about Bobby B's death reaches Qarth, and if it's that far, the dragon's news must have gotten to Euron already. Am I right?

3. Had Quentyn gotten to Meereen 91 days earlier, he'd have claimed Dany without difficulty. Seriously. Barristan would FLOOD Dany with "Marry Him!" Cards until she gave up and did it. I don't think Barristan would be as up for it with Euron as he was with Quent, but if Euron arrives there with some 3-5 ships including Silence(he could steal some ships in the way to Meereen just like Vic did), with a crown, and with a promise of bringing the Awesome Iron Fleet to come rescue her little ex-slaves, she'd marry the f**k out of him no question.

4. My point is: Euron is too awesome to let someone touch his "bride" with impunity. Hell, I think Victarion will obliterate Hizdahr just because he is Dany's husband, even if Vic has never seen her. Therefore I say, Daario and Euron have way too diferent personalities; over that, I don't think Dany would be as receptive to Euron as she was to Daario after that incident before the wedding.

5. OK, Dany's ASOS is duing Tyrion's ACOK, then? Because I remember Dany getting the news of Robert's death while still in Warth, and correct me if I'm wrong, she stayed there until the end of ACOK. But after that, taking the boat to Astapor, sacking Astapor, marching a lot of hungry guys to Yunkai, sacking Yunkai, marching even more hungry guys to Meereen, waiting outside of Meereen to make a plan about invading, taking Meereen, ruling for a week or two, having Drogon burn a kid, lock the dragons, THEN send Daario away, and plus Daario's trip to the Iron Islands, and this all happened some 30-45 days before the Kingsmoot? (30-45 days being my estimative of the time Euron was already ruling in Pyke, and the time it took Aeron to organize the Kingsmoot - again, correct me if I'm wrong). I just can't see this timeline working, man.

[AdmiralKyrd]

-Redacted-

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

The timeline is off, and out of chronological order. Xaro offers Dany thirteen ships in Meereen, in Daenerys III. Dany has counsel with Barristan right after

So Barristan is thinking about the ships and it suddenly dawns on him that they might be back in Westeros before the end of the year. Westeros is far, but not 9, 8, 7, etc months far. Bear in mind we know the new year takes place on the purple wedding, with the red wedding coming sometime, probably a month and a half max to a few weeks, before the purple wedding, and Balon's death is shortly before the Red Wedding. Sunspear from Meereen is about a months voyage at 5 knots, 6 with that ragtag fleet would be about the best you could hope for.

So either this chapter comes well after the purple wedding, say 8, 9, 10 months into 300 A.C. or it comes around the time of the Red Wedding.

Thing is though, Vic's Iron Fleet, even if it left the shields at around a paltry three knots (storms and such factored in), would make it to Meereen in under 90 days - so he should have arrived by now if this chapter is really late into 300 AC, heck, the Battle of Meereen would then be probably in 301 AC. Also, people hear in the Prologue of AFFC in Oldtown, which is set before news of Tywin's death arrives, that there are slave revolts in Slaver's Bay and dragons are there with a beautiful queen. Thus. it is unlikely this chapter takes place in 300 AC.

It makes the most sense in the text that Dany III, takes place around the time of the Red Wedding, if not slightly before. If you assume Daario is probably gone for around three months on his Lhazareen mission, then the timeline for a Daario trip from Meereen to the I.I., to do a Euron thing, then return to Meereen syncs up quite well with chapter placement.

From Dany I:

From Dany II:

From Dany III:

So, Euron was both at the Shields in AFFC and in Meereen in ADWD AT THE SAME TIME? That is impressive!

[ChillyPolly]

So, Euron was both at the Shields in AFFC and in Meereen in ADWD AT THE SAME TIME? That is impressive!

Huh? What? No. Daario is not in Meereen during ADWD Dany3. Where is the confusion here?

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

Huh? What? No. Daario is not in Meereen during ADWD Dany3. Where is the confusion here?

No, Daario really isn't. But Euron is in the shields until halfway up Dany's arc - at least until the wedding, as you seem to suggest it takes around three months to go from Iron Islands to Meereen by Euron's water highways. So, how the actual hell is Euron both in his way to Oldtown AS WE SPEAK and also f***ing Dany back at Meereen? Euron is still in Westeros, and Daario is in Meereen. How?

[ChillyPolly]

No, Daario really isn't. But Euron is in the shields until halfway up Dany's arc - at least until the wedding, as you seem to suggest it takes around three months to go from Iron Islands to Meereen by Euron's water highways. So, how the actual hell is Euron both in his way to Oldtown AS WE SPEAK and also f***ing Dany back at Meereen? Euron is still in Westeros, and Daario is in Meereen. How?

I don't get it. Why are you asking me to assume that Daario screwing Dany in Meereen, on the even of her Wedding, takes place at the same time as Euron's appearance in the Shield Islands chapter? Is this something you think you have proven? What was that argument again? Why are you not using real time referents, instead of vagaries like "as we speak" or "halfway up Dany's arc"?

I'm willing to be convinced. Just present a real argument that is not just smoke and noise.

[AdmiralKyrd]

-Redacted-

[ChillyPolly]

GeneralKird, I think your point about Barristan's comment about the possibility of reaching Westeros, by ship, before "the end of the year" in ADWD-Dany3, is indeed very curious. The fan-made timeline most often linked to, to disprove any Euron/Daario equivalency, places this chapter about Feb, 300. But it sounds as though it ought to be about 4 months earlier; either that or 4-6+ months later.

[Lord_Pepsi_Cupps]

I'm endlessly impressed with the level of thought and analysis people put into ASOIAF theories. It's a real testament to how intelligently GRRM writes.

I think in any other case, the sheer number of bits of circumstantial evidence making Daario/Euron *possible* would make everyone declare that it must be true.

But after 2 decades of dealing with this complex, unpredictable story with 100s of characters, everyone has become really suspicious of neat wrap-ups. And even more suspicious of "stereotypical" twists like "I'm not who you thought I was, I've been this other character the whole time".

Like how every time someone mentions Benjen, there's a huge group of readers who just moan and switch off. I think same now with Daario/Euron.

Bottom line is, GRRM's biggest annoyance is that with all this attention being paid to the smallest detail in the published books, a lot of people are bound to guess some pretty huge upcoming plot twists.

And what's the best cure for that? The fact that there are so many people discussing so many possible theories that the correct ones get lost among the crackpot ones.

And that's GRRMs ultimate weapon at this stage for keeping things interesting - he's written something so complex that even an intelligent, dedicated reader has learnt not to trust his or her instincts with this story, because the story seems to want to smash everything we take for granted in stories like this.

That's the biggest obstacle in believing Daario/Euron - not the fan-made timeline that assumes away GRRM's own cavil on chronology.

And this is all a sign of damn good writing. I genuinely have no idea how the story will end, despite being presented by a range of incredibly intelligent and original (and satisfyingly bittersweet!) possible endings.

[AdmiralKyrd]

-Redacted-

[oursisthefury69]

"Proof" isnt required for knowing this isnt the case

[LordStoneheart]

"Proof" isnt required for knowing this isnt the case

:agree: :agree: :agree:

We don't need concrete timeline evidence that definitely proves this wrong. It's fucking idiotic to begin with. The title should be the first clue that it's wrong.

[Tywin Lannister_]

I don't believe the theory, honestly, but to the people that are using overlapping time and geography to disprove the theory are wrong in the eyes of Martin.

GRRM has made it clear readers shouldn't worry about dates and geography. Meaning if something overlaps or doesn't fit, it doesn't matter. It still happened how he said it happened.

"My suggestion would be to put away the ruler and the stopwatch, and just enjoy the story."

-GRRM

Source:

http://www.westeros....y_and_Distances