Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 The account of Rhaego might actually be true-- it looks like whatever was inside the eggs was swapped with him. Those eggs were dormant; then the fever dream with Rhaego dying Nissa style (which suggests a sacrifice), and it seems that the deadness inside the eggs made their way inside Dany's womb, while Rhaego's life woke the eggs. When Dany wakes up, she feels not only heat from the eggs, but movement inside them; they quickened. Really? Teleported genetic swap. You just did prove that Targs are indeed the blood of dragons, because Dany's womb, in your opinion, quickened the eggs, not the heat of Drogo's funeral pyre, not the magic inherent to her ancestry, not the human sacrifice of a witch - a teleported genetic swap. I live and I learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Yet all we know prove this wrong. Interesting. What is it that you know and we don't? Targs rode dragons. It's a fact. How would you feel if you were riding a rocket which has a flame thrower in its head? Do you think you'd survive? Well, they did. And no one else. Nettles is one exception. Due to these abilities, Targs could conquer Westeros with 5000 people. If that is nothing special, how come no one dared rebel against them until dragons got extinct? Why didn't anyone else try to mount Drogon at that pit, but Dany if her blood is nothing special? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Stark-Targaryen Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Can't someone ask this question of GRRM? I'm new here, but not to fantasy, so I'll bet his answer will be vague. I haven't yet read all of GRRM's interviews. But based on the books I just read, we just don't know enough about the source or the nature of the magic in ASoIaF. Most fantasy series lay out the rules of magic within the first book and definitely by the second. After five books, there's still a lot the reader does not know. Magic's been frustratingly mysterious and peripheral to the series, not central. Because I love traditional fantasy, Martin's deliberate vagueness both frustrates me and stands out to me within the genre. I'm a Targ fan and would love to know what's up with the dragons, but I admit that we only have what's on the pages. I doubt the answer's in the Targ family themselves, but in Old Valyria, which we know very little about although the distance between the Doom and ~300AL is about the same as the distance between us and Elizabethan England. In many ways, I feel that we know more about the old gods, CotF & the Northmen's lore than about the Targ's forebears. We know nothing about the Doom, except that it happened. And we certainly know nothing about Valyria itself, which as an English prof who does archival research, I find strange and actually implausible. (The Targs don't have old Valyrian histories, legends, or books at Dragonstone? The maesters of the Citadel have zero records about Westerosi perspectives on Valyria? Don't buy it given the scope of that empire, and post-RR Westeros. Stannis isn't exactly the type to burn the library at Dragonstone when he took it over... in fact, that's the opposite of what he'd do. So there has to be something there.) We don't know enough to answer this question... yet. Maybe after the next book, or TWoIaF later this year. I'm happy to just wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 What is it that you know and we don't? Targs rode dragons. It's a fact. How would you feel if you were riding a rocket which has a flame thrower in its head? Do you think you'd survive? Well, they did. And no one else. Nettles is one exception. Due to these abilities, Targs could conquer Westeros with 5000 people. If that is nothing special, how come no one dared rebel against them until dragons got extinct? Why didn't anyone else try to mount Drogon at that pit, but Dany if her blood is nothing special?Why are you so sure that the other dragonseeds were actually Targaryen? On what basis were, say, Ulf and Hugh of Targaryen descent? And if there is one exception, there can be more. If you spread the propaganda that only you can ride your giant fire lizards, people probably won't take the chance that you're wrong. It's a wonder what a good PR campaign can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 What is it that you know and we don't? Targs rode dragons. It's a fact. How would you feel if you were riding a rocket which has a flame thrower in its head? Do you think you'd survive? Well, they did. And no one else. Nettles is one exception. Due to these abilities, Targs could conquer Westeros with 5000 people. If that is nothing special, how come no one dared rebel against them until dragons got extinct? Why didn't anyone else try to mount Drogon at that pit, but Dany if her blood is nothing special? Do we have any evidence that the Targs are immune to heat or fire? No. There are Targs that have been burned? Yes. Does Dany ever complain about the heat? Yes. Does Dany ever get burned? Yes. Have the author stated clearly that the Targs are not immune to fire? Yes. I don't see how those prove that Dany and/or the Targs are immune to fire and or heat. How can someone disagree with the author? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 You conveniently omit the common factor both babes had: scaled, stubby tails (and for naysayers, vestigial tails are not scaled). Valyrians experimented with dragons and blood magic. You realize these are fantasy novels? You can keep arguing all you like against the blood sorcery involved to bind and tame dragons. Keep digging your own hole, I won't stop you. Blood for Fire. Fire for Blood.Dragons do not have holes on their hearts do they? The account of Visenya's child is that it did. Holes in the heart, like vestigial tails, are well known congenital birth defects. Perhaps the baby had spina bifida?And the novels are fantasy but the setting is low magic. We are invited to question whether magic is truly occurring (eg. did the Seven speak to Davos or was he hallucinating from dehydration). It is reminiscent of the true mediaeval world when supernatural explanations were often given to phenomena with non-magical causes. Just because magic is a possible explanation does not mean it is the correct explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Dragons do not have holes on their hearts do they? The account of Visenya's child is that it did. Holes in the heart, like vestigial tails, are well known congenital birth defects. Perhaps the baby had spina bifida?And in the real world, if you practice incest over several generations the way the Targs did, eventually the genetic chickens come home to roost.There are probably a lot of magic dragon babies out in the hill country, too, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Classic Appletini propaganda conspiracy comments. Is it propaganda that the First Men descendants (and Starks especially) are the only skinchangers/ wargs, and or greenseers? The only difference is that all the First Men never gathered in one area that faced an apocalypse like the Valyrian Dragonlords faced the doom; where the Targaryens were the only Dragonlords away from Valyria and consequently the only surviving dragonlord family. Theoretically, If the Starks were the only surviving First Men house with the gift (skinchanging and or greenseeing) would you be saying that they are just propagating themselves to be the only ones capable of such things in an effort to keep their magic secret from anybody else? Ice and Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Why are you so sure that the other dragonseeds were actually Targaryen? On what basis were, say, Ulf and Hugh of Targaryen descent? And if there is one exception, there can be more.If you spread the propaganda that only you can ride your giant fire lizards, people probably won't take the chance that you're wrong. It's a wonder what a good PR campaign can do.What books have you been reading and what have you been eating or drinking whilst doing so? Quentin episode escaped you? Maybe you were reading about propaganda from some other book at the time and skipped that bit. Since it's all propaganda, go and warg a wolf, ride a dragon and tell us all about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 What books have you been reading and what have you been eating or drinking whilst doing so? Quentin episode escaped you? Maybe you were reading about propaganda from some other book at the time and skipped that bit. Since it's all propaganda, go and warg a wolf, ride a dragon and tell us all about it.I'm not sure who Quentin is, but I know that Quentyn's Targ blood didn't end up being of much use to him.ETA: It's funny that you mention warging in terms of propaganda, since we actually do see propaganda about wargs in the books, leveled at Robb and Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Do we have any evidence that the Targs are immune to heat or fire? No. There are Targs that have been burned? Yes. Does Dany ever complain about the heat? Yes. Does Dany ever get burned? Yes. Have the author stated clearly that the Targs are not immune to fire? Yes. I don't see how those prove that Dany and/or the Targs are immune to fire and or heat. How can someone disagree with the author? Does anyone else but Dany enter a funeral pyre and survives? No. Does anyone else in ASOIAF ride a dragon? No. So, your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I'm not sure who Quentin is, but I know that Quentyn's Targ blood didn't end up being of much use to him. Quentyn is as Targ as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Quentyn is as Targ as you.Well I do like my baths hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Well I do like my baths hot. Well, that's the best you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Well, that's the best you can do.That's the best any of them can do, apparently. At least on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 That's the best any of them can do, apparently. At least on a consistent basis. We heard your opinion 1000 times before. The text contradicts you. Why are you doing this I wonder? To waste posts on a perfectly good thread by repeating that everything is just propaganda? And when will you start a thread for a change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Joker Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Does anyone else but Dany enter a funeral pyre and survives? No. Does anyone else in ASOIAF ride a dragon? No. So, your point is? GRRM said Targs aren't immune to fire. The pyre was a one time magical, miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 We heard your opinion 1000 times before. The text contradicts you. Why are you doing this I wonder? To waste posts on a perfectly good thread by repeating that everything is just propaganda? And when will you start a thread for a change?What text contradicts me? The part where a bunch of Targs are burned or burned to death during the Dance? The part where Aerion dies from drinking wildfire? The part where Aegon V and Duncan the Small die in a fire? The part where Viserys dies from having molten gold poured over his head? The parts where Dany thinks that it's too damn hot out? The part where she has burns on her hands? If "heat tolerance" can't and didn't protect any of those Targs from any of that, then what good is it and why are we talking about it?I've started plenty of threads, including one just last night. So I'm not sure I understand your point there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 What text contradicts me? The part where a bunch of Targs are burned or burned to death during the Dance? The part where Aerion dies from drinking wildfire? The part where Aegon V and Duncan the Small die in a fire? The part where Viserys dies from having molten gold poured over his head? The parts where Dany thinks that it's too damn hot out? The part where she has burns on her hands? If "heat tolerance" can't and didn't protect any of those Targs from any of that, then what good is it and why are we talking about it?I've started plenty of threads, including one just last night. So I'm not sure I understand your point there.I never claimed Targs are fire resistant. You should read what people write if you want to communicate. Or is this just a propaganda stunt on your part? Answer all posts at all costs and raise awareness of the masses that everything GRRM writes is just some propaganda. However, you still never touched the main argument. How come Targs can ride dragons and others cannot? Nettle being an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 GRRM said Targs aren't immune to fire. The pyre was a one time magical, miracle. Everyone is aware of that. That was not my point. What is yours? I wasn't addressing you nor your post?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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