Attitude Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 If it was just three important people I don't see the point of describing it as heads of a dragon.To me it is an obvious reference to house Targaryen and always comes up in those storylines. Dragon = fire WW = Ice A Song of Ice and Fire. Why not? This reference for me is for the big battle between the living (fire, fire god, dragons, humars) and the dead (ww, ice king, wights). Why do people say Dragon = Targ. That simply is not true. Valyria wasn't 100% Targ, there have been other people with a connection with dragons, etc. I can go on, but IMO it isn't 100% clear that 'three heads of the dragon' = dragonriders = targ blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I lean towards the theory myself that if Jon winds up riding the white dragon, Bran will wind up warging the green one whether or not it is ridden by Tyrion, i.e. 'green' for 'greenseer'. Also, there's Bloodraven's words to Bran that he'll never walk again but he'll learn to fly.True Targaryen Dany rides Drogon because black is the background of the Targayen banner; since Drogon also has red colouration, he represents the Targ flag overall. Tyrion has no connection I can think of with the colour green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I lean towards the theory myself that if Jon winds up riding the white dragon, Bran will wind up warging the green one whether or not it is ridden by Tyrion, i.e. 'green' for 'greenseer'. Also, there's Bloodraven's words to Bran that he'll never walk again but he'll learn to fly.True Targaryen Dany rides Drogon because black is the background of the Targayen banner; since Drogon also has red colouration, he represents the Targ flag overall. Tyrion has no connection I can think of with the colour green.If Tyrion rides one at all it is Viserion, not Rhaegal.Jon's is Rhaegal IMO. The name makes sense, as does green and bronze coloring - First Men and CotF colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Dragon = fire WW = Ice A Song of Ice and Fire. Why not? This reference for me is for the big battle between the living (fire, fire god, dragons, humars) and the dead (ww, ice king, wights). Why do people say Dragon = Targ. That simply is not true. Valyria wasn't 100% Targ, there have been other people with a connection with dragons, etc. I can go on, but IMO it isn't 100% clear that 'three heads of the dragon' = dragonriders = targ blood. GRRm said something about the dragon rider not being a Targaryen but we can be sure that three head of the dragon will be riders because when Aemon tells that Dragon has three heads ...he believes he is the only Targ left other than danny so he wants to go to her but his age is betrayed him for me ,jon will have Rhaegal because he was named after Rhaegar and Tyrion will be having Viserion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Dragon = fire WW = Ice A Song of Ice and Fire. Why not? This reference for me is for the big battle between the living (fire, fire god, dragons, humars) and the dead (ww, ice king, wights). Why do people say Dragon = Targ. That simply is not true. Valyria wasn't 100% Targ, there have been other people with a connection with dragons, etc. I can go on, but IMO it isn't 100% clear that 'three heads of the dragon' = dragonriders = targ blood.Targs were not the only dragon lords, no, but they WERE the only ones that survived.The three headed dragon is THEIR sigil. Ice magic is a different thing. The prophesy is only mentioned in chapters that include at least one Targaryen. Seeing it otherwise is convoluted stretching IMO. The three heads do NOT have to be the most important characters in the book by the end, but they DO have to be dragons - ie. Targaryen blood of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 GRRm said something about the dragon rider not being a Targaryen but we can be sure that three head of the dragon will be riders because when Aemon tells that Dragon has three heads ...he believes he is the only Targ left other than danny so he wants to go to her but his age is betrayed him for me ,jon will have Rhaegal because he was named after Rhaegar and Tyrion will be having ViserionPeople keep bringing this up as if it is proof Starks can ride dragons if they want, but not being Targaryen would include all Targaryen bastards, Baratheons, Velaryons, Martells, all of whom still have dragon blood.If the blood wasn't important, we wouldn't have seen the connection between the dragons and Brown Ben Plumm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 People keep bringing this up as if it is proof Starks can ride dragons if they want, but not being Targaryen would include all Targaryen bastards, Baratheons, Velaryons, Martells, all of whom still have dragon blood.If the blood wasn't important, we wouldn't have seen the connection between the dragons and Brown Ben Plumm. Actually iam not a believer in that myself ......and if you see my post you will see i dont see any Starks as riders but if i want a Rider from stark it will be Arya and i think that was the whole point of Quentyn in DwD to tell us people that not everyone can who claim they have a Dragon blood will tame a dragon ... ETA:right now i see only two dragon Riders Danny , a sphinx with female head Jon , a sphinx with male head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 GRRm said something about the dragon rider not being a Targaryen but we can be sure that three head of the dragon will be riders because when Aemon tells that Dragon has three heads ...he believes he is the only Targ left other than danny so he wants to go to her but his age is betrayed him for me ,jon will have Rhaegal because he was named after Rhaegar and Tyrion will be having Viserion And who said Aemon is right? What Aemon believes (that he should be a rider), is true? Don't get me wrong here, because I also think there are 3 actual dragon riders. I am just not very sure about Tyrion. It doesn't feel right. And besides, I can't say I've seen anything that states that 'three heads of the dragon' = 3 dragonriders. It's most likely, but not stated (yet). Targs were not the only dragon lords, no, but they WERE the only ones that survived.The three headed dragon is THEIR sigil. Ice magic is a different thing. The prophesy is only mentioned in chapters that include at least one Targaryen.Seeing it otherwise is convoluted stretching IMO. The three heads do NOT have to be the most important characters in the book by the end, but they DO have to be dragons - ie. Targaryen blood of some kind. They were the only ones which still had dragons, not necesarry the online family that survived. A member of a different Valyrian family could've been on a trip/trade/slave hunt or w/e during the Doom. Not a long shot IMO, I think it's almost certain there was A Valyrian somewhere other then in Valryia at the time of the Doom. Therefor, it doesn't have to be a targ to be a dragon rider (Nothing even states that you need 'dragon/valyrian blood') (ps. That guy with Dany who had a certain 'click' with dragons. I don't remember him very well, be he could be someone with dragonlord family for instance. Edit; Was that Brown Ben? I thought it was someone else..) And yes, stating that it doesn't have to do with riding a dragon/having dragon blood is a bit streching. But stating that they HAVE to be 'dragons' / targ blood isn't inconclusive. Jon Rhaegar Stark also stated that GRRM said; 1 dragonrides isn't a targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Actually iam not a believer in that myself ......and if you see my post you will see i dont see any Starks as riders but if i want a Rider from stark it will be Arya and i think that was the whole point of Quentyn in DwD to tell us people that not everyone can who claim they have a Dragon blood will tame a dragon ... ETA:right now i see only two dragon Riders Danny , a sphinx with female head Jon , a sphinx with male headYeah, the third is a mystery, and since Arya is my favorite character I would love if she got her wish to ride a dragon. But still, I don't see it happening. I think the blood matters. Not everyone with a drop of dragon blood will bond with and ride a dragon, but the chance of doing so is pretty much zero without the dragon blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 and i think that was the whole point of Quentyn in DwD to tell us people that not everyone can who claim they have a Dragon blood will tame a dragon ... Agreed. He has targ blood, but still gets killed. I think the blood matters. Not everyone with a drop of dragon blood will bond with and ride a dragon, but the chance of doing so is pretty much zero without the dragon blood. Show me proof for that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Agreed. He has targ blood, but still gets killed.Yes, but that is pretty different thing from proving the blood doesn't matter at all, because it doesn't prove anything except that Quentyn wasn't the right guy for those particular dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Show me proof for that statement.Brown Ben Plumm proves it. The dragons only "like" people with the right blood.See post above on Quentyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 And who said Aemon is right? What Aemon believes (that he should be a rider), is true? Don't get me wrong here, because I also think there are 3 actual dragon riders. I am just not very sure about Tyrion. It doesn't feel right. And besides, I can't say I've seen anything that states that 'three heads of the dragon' = 3 dragonriders. It's most likely, but not stated (yet). They were the only ones which still had dragons, not necesarry the online family that survived. A member of a different Valyrian family could've been on a trip/trade/slave hunt or w/e during the Doom. Not a long shot IMO, I think it's almost certain there was A Valyrian somewhere other then in Valryia at the time of the Doom. Therefor, it doesn't have to be a targ to be a dragon rider (Nothing even states that you need 'dragon/valyrian blood') (ps. That guy with Dany who had a certain 'click' with dragons. I don't remember him very well, be he could be someone with dragonlord family for instance. Edit; Was that Brown Ben? I thought it was someone else..) And yes, stating that it doesn't have to do with riding a dragon/having dragon blood is a bit streching. But stating that they HAVE to be 'dragons' / targ blood isn't inconclusive. Jon Rhaegar Stark also stated that GRRM said; 1 dragonrides isn't a targ. because Aemon is the one of the few people who know the full contents of the prophecy ... the Targs left the Valyria because they know Doom will come because one of them had a dream about that and every other family was destroyed only targs survived the DOOM ... i think you are mentioning about Brown Ben Plumm and he has a blood of dragon because a Targ princesss married a Plumm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes, exactly. BBP is descended from Elaena Targaryen and probably either Aegon IV, her Velaryon lover, or some other subsequent Targ lover (she passed the child off as a Plumm but he was born too long after her Plumm husband's death to actually be his). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Even Aegon the conqueror and his sisters made the others believe they can tame a dragon like some sort of test taming dragons and worthy of the dragon ...if you read the World of ice and fire sample chapter you will know and During the first Dance ,princess Rhaenyra tries to find Riders for her dragon who are common people i think or from the blood of old valyria but she didnt succeeded saying that Baratheons and Martells can have a dragon is like saying a Karstark must have a Direwolf because they have stark blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Even Aegon the conqueror and his sisters made the others believe they can tame a dragon like some sort of test taming dragons and worthy of the dragon ...if you read the World of ice and fire sample chapter you will know and During the first Dance ,princess Rhaenyra tries to find Riders for her dragon who are common people i think or from the blood of old valyria but she didnt succeeded saying that Baratheons and Martells can have a dragon is like saying a Karstark must have a Direwolf because they have stark bloodShe was looking specifically for Targaryen bastards, not common people.The way I see it, it is clear that not even every full Targaryen is a "dragon". Viserys was not.So just because Quentyn did not succeed, does not mean Arianne could not etc. The blood matters, but not everyone with the blood is a "true dragon" just like not everyone has red hair in families that carry the gene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 to the OP, iam starting to doubt Tyrion as a Dragon rider because of what Moqorro says about Dragons young and old and false and true and light and Dark why i doubt because he mentions Tyrion is among them but not one of them .. so i would like to know what Op and other posters thinks about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 She was looking specifically for Targaryen bastards, not common people.The way I see it, it is clear that not even every full Targaryen is a "dragon". Viserys was not.So just because Quentyn did not succeed, does not mean Arianne could not etc. The blood matters, but not everyone with the blood is a "true dragon" just like not everyone has red hair in families that carry the gene.i agree blood matters but not everyone who has the blood can ride Rhaegar was called as Last dragon and we know danny is the last dragon now ...so i can see jon as a Dragon but iam starting to think there may be not a third one because there is no more Targs left or tyrion getting one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 to the OP, iam starting to doubt Tyrion as a Dragon rider because of what Moqorro says about Dragons young and old and false and true and light and Dark why i doubt because he mentions Tyrion is among them but not one of them .. so i would like to know what Op and other posters thinks about thisYes exactly. I think he will spin the web that ties the dragon heads together, the node that makes it happen, but he is not himself one of the heads.Though it is a nagging mystery who the third head is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Maybe we should make a list of contenders for third head that does not include Tyrion.1. If Aegon is actually a Brightfyre or something, and manages to survive the next book he might be one I suppose.2. Viserion liked BBP, so maybe BBP will actually ride him, with Tyrion's helpful dragon lore as a guide.3. Baratheons - Stannis, Gendry, Edric, Mya...all have some dragon blood and the courage to try to ride under the right circumstances.4. Arianne. She seems like a true dragon to me. Though I think she is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.