Connecting the 3 Dragon Heads - Examining Unique Similarities

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

UnCat will NEVER kiss Jon.

Geographically impossible. What, UnCat is going to travel through blizzards with a bunch of people who have nothing to do with the North except Harwin to see Jon who has nothing to do with her "kill them all" Frey mission?

Not going to happen. UnCat may eventually learn the truth of Jon's parents but that is the entire extent of it. She will give the kiss of life to one of: Brienne, Blackfish, Jeyne if anyone.

Well of course none of us really know what will happen but to say it's geographically impossible is silly.

She doesn't even have to travel with all of them, she may go by herself. I don't think the cold & blizzard will bother her much.

[Lady Arya's Song]

The Kiss UnCat will give Jon is a prayer!

The kiss is a metaphor for a prayer. The example given subtly by Martin is the Sansa Sandor exchange during the Blackwater battle.

Sansa sang a prayer to Sandor...the mother's prayer...and later she remembers it as a "kiss". That is how Sansa's "unkiss"/prayer ties in so nicely for why UNCat is still in this story.

I do believe at some point Lady Stoneheart will understand who Jon is and she will pray for him. In fact if you believe that Howland Reed is the High Sparrow..then it is very possible that Cat went into the Neck area with her band of men and Howland has already told her the true story of Jon's parents.

This is certainly possible. Later Howland goes on towards Kingslanding and Cat continues to pursue the Freys..but now she knows the truth about Jon.

[Hippocras]

The Kiss UnCat will give Jon is a prayer!

The kiss is a metaphor for a prayer. The example given subtly by Martin is the Sansa Sandor exchange during the Blackwater battle.

Sansa sang a prayer to Sandor...the mother's prayer...and later she remembers it as a "kiss". That is how Sansa's "unkiss"/prayer ties in so nicely for why UNCat is still in this story.

I do believe at some point Lady Stoneheart will understand who Jon is and she will pray for him. In fact if you believe that Howland Reed is the High Sparrow..then it is very possible that Cat went into the Neck area with her band of men and Howland has already told her the true story of Jon's parents.

This is certainly possible. Later Howland goes on towards Kingslanding and Cat continues to pursue the Freys..but now she knows the truth about Jon.

I like the first bit about a prayer.

Howland Reed is not the High Sparrow though. It is a terrible theory that doesn't work and that people should really stop pushing, particularly now that the casting has confirmed that the High Sparrow is much too old to be Howland.

[pobeb]

I agree with the theory about Dany, Jon, and Tyrion being the three heads, and the reasons why. But I disagree about the prophecy of three treasons, three fires, and three mounts, because those are all things which are supposed to happen to Dany, and she is supposed to know it. It's not about what the reader knows. Although they may be the three dragon riders, they are not one entity.

Dany lit one fire for life when she hatched her dragon eggs. She lit a fire for death, when she had Drogon burn the house of the undying. I suspect her fire for love has yet to be lit. Yes, Jon Snow and Tyrion have also lit fires, but their fires do not count as Dany's fire. Very likely each of them will light one for life, one for death, and one for love. The three treasons: Mirri Muz Dur for blood, Viserys for gold, and the one for love has yet to be discovered, but will probably come from Selmy. The mounts: Silver, to bed, Drogon, to dread. Love is as yet undiscovered.

I expect the lives of the other two heads, which parallel hers in so many ways, will continue to parallel hers in fulfilling the same prophecy.

I disagree, but I respect your interpretation. The HotU triplet is one of the most puzzling riddles in the story; I'm sure there are many possible explanations. I see you're focused on the triplet itself, but don't forget about the accompanying visions; as I do feel they are a big part of solving the puzzle.

IMO a bit stretched because of logistics mainly, and how does Cat know Jon is in trouble in the first place?

But you did put it together very well!

As Lyanna<3Rhaegar has explained, asserting logistics over the theory is pretty silly. There's 2 confirmed books left; plenty of time to travel to the Wall.

[The Dragons Hand]

Even Aegon the conqueror and his sisters made the others believe they can tame a dragon like some sort of test taming dragons and worthy of the dragon ...if you read the World of ice and fire sample chapter you will know

and During the first Dance ,princess Rhaenyra tries to find Riders for her dragon who are common people i think or from the blood of old valyria but she didnt succeeded

saying that Baratheons and Martells can have a dragon is like saying a Karstark must have a Direwolf because they have stark blood

To be fair, the features of a Stark are much more pronounced in a Karstark than the Targ in a Martell or Baratheon.

[The Dragons Hand]

I think Viserion's gold and white coloring has something to do with who his rider with be. Of course Viserys who had silver hair was drowned in gold and it could just be that. But Dany is all "Fire and blood" and Drogon is black/red, Rhaegal is more children of the foresty which leads to Jon. Perhaps Tyrion who has pale blond hair and the wealth of Casterly rock (Kinda) is for Viserion.

[The Dragons Hand]

Not a Targ in name (Dany/Jon (R+L=J is true)) are targs, the 3rd isn't, but most likely has the blood.

That would make Aegon quite possible. Assuming (F)Aegon = Blackfyre.

He could take the name AeJon StarKaryen if he wanted to troll the fandom.

[John Suburbs]

I know Dany is already riding Drogo and dragons are only supposed to have one rider at a time, but I still think the smartest one for her to ride is Viserion. He is the one most devoted to her (I suspect he inherited the spirit of Rhaego in the pyre), so he would be the one to place her safety first and foremost in his mind.

Drogo would just go wild once the killing starts and forget all about her, and Rhaegar is just too untrustworthy, probably because he spawned from MMD's death.

That's probably not the way it will work out, but if given the choice, I think she should go with Vis.

[Hippocras]

What makes you say Vis is most devoted?

[pobeb]

but now she knows the truth about Jon.

I agree with you all the way up until this point. Granted, I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong (I'm still puzzling it out myself), but I want you to take a look at something fascinating I found in a re-read of Brienne's "trial":

Now, during the time Brienne is judged by Lady Stoneheart, 3 very important items are examined: Robb's Crown, Oathkeeper, and Tommen's Letter:

A trestle table had been set up across the cave, in a cleft in the rock. Behind it sat a woman all in grey, cloaked and hooded. In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron swords. She was studying it, her fingers stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness. Her eyes

glimmered under her hood.

He slid the sword from its scabbard and placed it in front of Lady Stoneheart. In the light from the firepit the red and black ripples in the blade almost seem to move, but the woman in grey had eyes only for the pommel: a golden lion’s head, with ruby eyes that shone like two red stars.

“There is this as well.” Thoros of Myr drew a parchment from his sleeve, and put it down next to the sword. “It bears the boy king’s seal and says the bearer is about his business.”

The woman in grey gave no answer. She studied the sword, the parchment, the bronze-and-iron crown.

So, I've highlighted some VERY key lines here, but before I elaborate on these items, I'm going to tell you exactly what they represent:

1) Oathkeeper = Jon

- red and black (Targaryen) ripples (woven) in the blade (Jon)

- pommel has "ruby eyes that shone like two red stars" (Longclaw/Ghost)

- And the most definitive point:

“She asked the name of this blade of yours,” said the young northman in the sheepskin jerkin.

“Oathkeeper,” Brienne answered.

The woman in grey hissed through her fingers. Her eyes were two red pits burning in the shadows. She spoke again.

“No, she says. Call it Oathbreaker.."

Jon was once an "Oathkeeper" then accused of being an "Oathbreaker" :cool4:

2) Tommen's Letter = Robb's Will

-Tommen's letter is "the boy king's letter" - Robb is referred to as "the boy king"

Robb stood, and as quick as that, her fate was settled. He picked up a sheet of parchment. “One more matter... I’ve thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision.”

A king indeed, Catelyn thought, defeated.

-both letters are described specifically as "parchments" and carry the King's decree

3) Robb's Crown = Jon's Crown

- While Catelyn is pondering the crown, she strokes it's blades "as if to test their sharpness"

- We've established that the swords and blades, in this sense, are a metaphor for Jon

- So, Catelyn is pondering the crown (thinking of the successor), and testing the blades (Jon) of their "sharpness" (truth)

- To magnify the significance of Catelyn's testing of blades for truth, look no further than the ultimatum she gives to Brienne:

“She says that you must prove your faith.”

“How?” asked Brienne.

“With your sword. Oathkeeper, you call it? Then keep your oath to her, milady says.”

“What does she want of me?”

(...) "She wants to feed the crows..."

"The sword (Jon) or the noose (death), she says. Choose, she says. Choose.”

Or, in other words, "Those who do not bend, break. Bow before King Jon, or you will be broken."

And now to bring is all home! So, when we see Lady Stoneheart, she is examing first the crown, then the sword, then the parchment. HOWEVER, after she's seen all 3, she studies them in a very, VERY specific and interesting order:

She studied the sword, the parchment, the bronze-and-iron crown.

If you've followed me so far, I hope you see the significance in this order: Catelyn's progressive thinking which concludes in who the King should be.

She studied the sword (Jon), the parchment (Robb's Will - naming Jon King)

and finally

the bronze-and-iron crown (The Future King)

So, in closing, should we assume that Catelyn knows about Jon's secret? It is possible, but the more probable situation is that Catelyn is being driven by the memory of her dead son, and Robb's final command (to crown Jon) At least, that's my current stance. I feel that with or without Howland's knowledge, Catelyn would still be moving in the same direction. Although, I do agree that Howland's involvement with her is definitely a possibility.

To those wondering the significance behind sending Brienne to capture Jaime... Well... you'll just have to wait until my "Trial of Joy" theory. Trust me, for all the research you guys have seen me do here, I've done double the work offline, and it will be worth the wait ;)

p.s. Anyone think, with all this evidence I've scrounged up, there should be a new thread made to analyze the merit of Cat's kiss for Jon? credits will be given accordingly, of course (lady arya's song)

I ask because we're all discussing it, but within a thread dedicated to discussing the similarities between Jon, Dany, and Tyrion

[Lady Arya's Song]

Pobeb

Wow! Really nice work. I have never looked at the scene with Lady Stoneheart and the sword, parchment and crown in that way before.

I have liked the Jon is Lightbringer sword theory for a while now. I will have to think on what you just posted in regard to Jon being Oathkeeper.

One other sword that is really intriguing is the sword that Ilyn Payne used after Ice was taken from him. There are some subtle hints regarding Jon Snow and Ilyn Payne along with BR and that old sword Payne is using.. off topic so I go no further.

[pobeb]

off topic so I go no further.

Well, it's my thread, and I'm interested in your ideas, so please do go further (when you have the time, of course)

:)

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I agree with you all the way up until this point. Granted, I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong (I'm still puzzling it out myself), but I want you to take a look at something fascinating I found in a re-read of Brienne's "trial":

Now, during the time Brienne is judged by Lady Stoneheart, 3 very important items are examined: Robb's Crown, Oathkeeper, and Tommen's Letter:

So, I've highlighted some VERY key lines here, but before I elaborate on these items, I'm going to tell you exactly what they represent:

1) Oathkeeper = Jon

- red and black (Targaryen) ripples (woven) in the blade (Jon)

- pommel has "ruby eyes that shone like two red stars" (Longclaw/Ghost)

- And the most definitive point:

Jon was once an "Oathkeeper" then accused of being an "Oathbreaker" :cool4:

2) Tommen's Letter = Robb's Will

-Tommen's letter is "the boy king's letter" - Robb is referred to as "the boy king"

-both letters are described specifically as "parchments" and carry the King's decree

3) Robb's Crown = Jon's Crown

- While Catelyn is pondering the crown, she strokes it's blades "as if to test their sharpness"

- We've established that the swords and blades, in this sense, are a metaphor for Jon

- So, Catelyn is pondering the crown (thinking of the successor), and testing the blades (Jon) of their "sharpness" (truth)

- To magnify the significance of Catelyn's testing of blades for truth, look no further than the ultimatum she gives to Brienne:

"The sword (Jon) or the noose (death), she says. Choose, she says. Choose.

Or, in other words, "Those who do not bend, break. Bow before King Jon, or you will be broken."

And now to bring is all home! So, when we see Lady Stoneheart, she is examing first the crown, then the sword, then the parchment. HOWEVER, after she's seen all 3, she studies them in a very, VERY specific and interesting order:

If you've followed me so far, I hope you see the significance in this order: Catelyn's progressive thinking which concludes in who the King should be.

She studied the sword (Jon), the parchment (Robb's Will - naming Jon King)

and finally

the bronze-and-iron crown (The Future King)

So, in closing, should we assume that Catelyn knows about Jon's secret? It is possible, but the more probable situation is that Catelyn is being driven by the memory of her dead son, and Robb's final command (to crown Jon) At least, that's my current stance. I feel that with or without Howland's knowledge, Catelyn would still be moving in the same direction. Although, I do agree that Howland's involvement with her is definitely a possibility.

To those wondering the significance behind sending Brienne to capture Jaime... Well... you'll just have to wait until my "Trial of Joy" theory. Trust me, for all the research you guys have seen me do here, I've done double the work offline, and it will be worth the wait ;)

p.s. Anyone think, with all this evidence I've scrounged up, there should be a new thread made to analyze the merit of Cat's kiss for Jon? credits will be given accordingly, of course (lady arya's song)

I ask because we're all discussing it, but within a thread dedicated to discussing the similarities between Jon, Dany, and Tyrion

I think there should definitely be a seperate thread for this. Can't wait for the Trial of joy either! Any ideas when you will post it?

[pobeb]

I think there should definitely be a seperate thread for this. Can't wait for the Trial of joy either! Any ideas when you will post it?

I just moved into a new condo, so I'm waiting for my internet provider to simply "switch on" my service. I mean, it's already open and active, but the feed can't get into my home until they have one of their technicians flip some switch outside of my building. Pretty dumb.

Speaking of which, to anyone who is paying for a particular service (internet, phone, cable, etc.), please remember that you're going to be overcharged. Every. Single. Time. So, you have to go into your negotiations with that understanding, and have done some research to counter their hustling lies. Time Warner kept trying to push 20mbps on me for $45 a month. They told me there was no way to get a lower rate - they told me this about 5-6 times, through various reps. Now it's $35 and I haven't even called back to renegotiate a better deal; which I have every intention of doing before the 30 day trial is done. My point is, never settle for the intial price. The provider will ALWAYS buckle, you just have to be willing to push. The great part is, you can't lose. Even if you don't get exactly what you want, you'll most likely still end up with a better deal, and trying is free. :) /endrant

So, I guess the short answer is, I'll have my service up hopefully late tonight or tomorrow, and have the thread up around the weekend.

[Lady Arya's Song]

My guess regarding the three squires

Donnel Haigh ( who is a friend and drinks with the Freys at the Twins when Catelyn and Robb arrive for Edmure's wedding)

We later see him stop Sandor Clegane who is dressed as a farmer on the cart.

Ryman Frey who is one of the Freys drinking with Donnel at the Twins. I think Ryman is also the Frey who actually killed Cat at RW. She later hangs him.

Boris Blount could be the Blount squire.

The ages of the above men seem to fall in line timewise with the tourney at Harrenhall.

[John Suburbs]

What makes you say Vis is most devoted?

He is the first one to fly to her whenever she enters their presence, and he's always climbing on her and striving for her attention --almost like he's a lost little boy soul looking for his mother. Even in the pit when Quentyn gets roasted, he goes right up to Pretty Meris, the only woman in the group, as if he's looking for Dany. He seems to crave her attention.

[The Mother of The Others]

What's going on? There's no need to go way out on a limb with details. Just say Jon Dany Tyrion are marked by fate, which most people were already onboard with, but now we have to sit on our hands and wait to see if fate knows anything. Maybe fate knows nothing and that's why Jon knows nothing, because he's touched by fate and fate is ignorant.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I just moved into a new condo, so I'm waiting for my internet provider to simply "switch on" my service. I mean, it's already open and active, but the feed can't get into my home until they have one of their technicians flip some switch outside of my building. Pretty dumb.

Speaking of which, to anyone who is paying for a particular service (internet, phone, cable, etc.), please remember that you're going to be overcharged. Every. Single. Time. So, you have to go into your negotiations with that understanding, and have done some research to counter their hustling lies. Time Warner kept trying to push 20mbps on me for $45 a month. They told me there was no way to get a lower rate - they told me this about 5-6 times, through various reps. Now it's $35 and I haven't even called back to renegotiate a better deal; which I have every intention of doing before the 30 day trial is done. My point is, never settle for the intial price. The provider will ALWAYS buckle, you just have to be willing to push. The great part is, you can't lose. Even if you don't get exactly what you want, you'll most likely still end up with a better deal, and trying is free. :) /endrant

So, I guess the short answer is, I'll have my service up hopefully late tonight or tomorrow, and have the thread up around the weekend.

Nice!

About the Internet I get unlimited data for 29.99 a month. Frontier is the service I go through

Just realized you said mbps & was not talking about how mmuch data you have! :dunce:

[Hippocras]

He is the first one to fly to her whenever she enters their presence, and he's always climbing on her and striving for her attention --almost like he's a lost little boy soul looking for his mother. Even in the pit when Quentyn gets roasted, he goes right up to Pretty Meris, the only woman in the group, as if he's looking for Dany. He seems to crave her attention.

Very interesting. I hadn't put those moments together.

So Viserion is a dragon that craves a woman's love and should have a woman rider ( who?) is one possibility. Or he is a dragon to be ridden by a man who craves, badly, a woman's love (Tyrion).

The thing is that Viserion was ALSO the dragon who was the most attracted to Brown Ben Plumm, so it might not be about being female at all. The description of his egg also seems to somewhat match the egg that Elaena Targaryen had - Elaena being Plumm's ancestor. Meaning that Viserion may be sensing Elaena's kin.

[The Dragons Hand]

So, who does everyone think will ride each dragon? Of course someone could ride a dragon for a time and then someone else could take the reins. I think we're all kind of expecting Dany-Drogon Tyrion-Viserion Jon-Rhaegal, but it would be mighty interesting if Vic managed to capture Drogon. Of course based on what information we have on TWOW it seems unlikely.