Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Dany has already had a second fire-resistant event.Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Where? I assume Daznak's Pit is meant. A common mistake, as she is actually burnt here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Inb4 the pits where Drogon (whoops) misses her completely with fire and her hair is singed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I assume Daznak's Pit is meant. A common mistake, as she is actually burnt here Hair burnt off, wounds on her hands. Indeed, what that scene shows is that even Dany isn't immune to fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Defiance Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Quentyn is as dead as Ned. I think some folk think he's not because he was a PoV who didn't have any immediate overt effect on the story before he died so there has to be.more to it. When he was probably there to give a reason why Dorne would side with Aegon. It's better to have chapters filling in some characters motivations and stuff than random stuff just happening. To me Quentyn seems like a potential dues ex machinima or random decisions got made into a reasonably well rounded character.I believe his death will have some impact on Dany's relationship with Dorne. Especially since he was killed by a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I assume Daznak's Pit is meant. Yes. Dany herself considers this event analogous to her experience in the bonfire. A common mistake, as she is actually burnt here She is burnt in the bonfire as well ... at least her hair is. I referred to fire RESISTANCE; not fire IMMUNITY. Hair burnt off, wounds on her hands. Indeed, what that scene shows is that even Dany isn't immune to fire. We're playing games with semantics here. Nobody is claiming that Quentyn is "immune" to fire. We are claiming he survived. Dany, for one, shows that that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Dany, for one, doesn't get hit by a stream of dragonfire directly. She ducks under it.Quentyns dead buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Dany, for one, doesn't get hit by a stream of dragonfire directly. She ducks under it. Quentyn and Dany's experiences are strikingly similar. They feel furnace winds and catch fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Quentyn and Dany's experiences are strikingly similar. They feel furnace winds and catch fire.And strikingly different. Dany ducks, Quentyn melts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Inb4 the pits where Drogon (whoops) misses her completely with fire and her hair is singed "Missing" verses "hitting" is a false distinction. There is no evidence that Quentyn was "hit" by flame in any special sense, merely that he caught fire. Dany's hair catches fire and burns off completely. I would not advise trying that at home - it is not something that could NORMALLY happen without causing severe injury. Quentyn's hair and clothes catch fire, but they probably don't burn off completely because Archie injures himself putting the flames out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 And strikingly different. Dany ducks, Quentyn melts. Unless he doesn't melt. You are merely assuming what you seek to prove. Not much of an argument, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Quentyn and Dany's experiences are strikingly similar. They feel furnace winds and catch fire. Exactly. Of course, you can argue, based on his condition, that the dying man on Dany's bed may have been more directly exposed. But that man might not be Quentyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's not a false distinction. You assume it doesn't hit because there is no line of text thay says "the dragonfire hit him". Did you know there is no line of text that says Ice hit Neds neck and disconnected his head from his body? But we know it did. Just as we know Quentyn was hit by the fire, horribly burned, and killed.And LOL at your "assume what you seek to prove". Thats exactly what youre doing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's not a false distinction. I'm sorry, but it is. You assume it doesn't hit because there is no line of text thay says "the dragonfire hit him". I assume nothing of the sort. I merely do not claim that the dragonfire hit him, when I do not know whether the dragonfire hit him or not. Did you know there is no line of text that says Ice hit Neds neck and disconnected his head from his body? But we know it did. Just as we know Quentyn was hit by the fire, horribly burned, and killed. Oh, I am sure there are excellent reasons for concluding that Ice hit Ned's head and disconnected his head from Ned's body. But any argument presenting those reasons should be based on premises you can back up, not stuff you merely make up. In any event, that would be a different argument. And not one I would be interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Except no-one is making anything up re: Quentyn. In his own POV, as well as Barristans next POV, we see explocitly that he is burned and killed by dragonfire. Barristan himself observes Quentyn, and has him moved into Danys bed. There is no way that somehow Quentyn after being burned was hidden from Barristan and TP put in his place. It just didn't happen. There's no text in between Quentyns last chapter and Barristans next one that even remotely suggests a switch or a survival. Your claims are completely ludicrous.And I'm sorry, but it isn't. The only thing false in this thread are the interpretations that Quentyn lives. You're just wrong. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 #wrektETA: I know Targs aren't fire immune because there is an SSM in which GRRM refutes the idea that Dany has fire immunity If you're referring to this, read carefully and you'll see it says "it was never the case that all Targaryens are immune to all fire at all times." Which leaves plenty of room the maintain some Targaryens could be immune to fire some of the time. If you're referring to this Chilly has the right of it, immunity may be too strong a word as Dany's hair can easily be burned. Resistance then. But there is another way to square these statements: There may not be a Targaryen resistance to fire, but you may get it if you are Blood of the Dragon, which does not require you to be a Targaryen. Either way, neither of these amounts to a slam dunk rebuttal to QIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Quentyn. In his own POV, as well as Barristans next POV, we see explocitly that he is burned and killed by dragonfire. Not at all. In Quentyn's POV, Quentyn is engulfed in furnace wind, sees himself catch fire, and screams After Quentyn's POV ends, more stuff happens, which cannot be known for certain. Various persons, and 2 dragons, leave the scene. This all takes place off screen. We do not really know what takes place during this period. Then the guards show up, to find a dead crossbowman, a badly-injured man, and 2 Dornishmen (Archie & Gerris). Gerris is standing over the injured man with sword in hand. Archie is cradling his head (perhaps to prevent Gerris from slitting his throat). Gerris throws away his sword as soon as he sees the guards. Either Archie & Gerris say, or the guards assume, that the injured man is Quentyn. However he is burnt beyond recognition. The injured man dies in Barristan's POV. Barristan's chapter reflects Barristan's belief that the injured man is Quentyn. However it is possible Barristan has been misled. Barristan himself observes Quentyn, and has him moved into Danys bed. He believes the man is Quentyn, and is probably told that by Archie and Gerris. However the man is burnt beyond recognition. There is no way that somehow Quentyn after being burned was hidden from Barristan and TP put in his place. Really? Then how did Caggo, Merris, and the rest of the Windblown escape? If they could have left the scene, without getting caught, then why not Quentyn as well? And I'm sorry, but it isn't. The only thing false in this thread are the interpretations that Quentyn lives. You're just wrong. Deal with it. Why don't you just find another thread, and leave us to our insanity. Or stay, and continue to express strident outrage. I guess its your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 And I'm sorry, but it isn't. The only thing false in this thread are the interpretations that Quentyn lives. You're just wrong. Deal with it. Once again, we see the perfect argument of "Deal with it." Quentyn may be dead and he may be alive. What is certain is that GRRM intended this ambiguity. He told a story with a hole in it. A happened, then B, then D. What happened to C? Let's ask Arch and Drink. "A happened, then B, then D." What happened to C? Arch and Drink are acting weird and I haven't seen any explanation for why. The "Quentyn is alive" theory attempts to answer it. The "Quentyn is dead" chants do nothing. If you believe Quentyn is dead, please explain why Arch and Drink are acting weird. Please explain how the Windblown escaped the maze. Please explain why Quentyn didn't explode and how Arch put him out. Please explain why Drink is showing unusual "grief" and why Drink was holding a sword over the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Not either, both, and supported by the text of ADWD, tell us Dany is a rare case of showing immunity to fire and that Quentyn assuredly had no resistance at all. I mean his last chapter starts with him putting his hand over candleflame and immediately withdrawing it over the pain. The notion that he survived at all is just wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I dont think they are acting weird, I think you think they are acting weird because you have come up with a conclusion and contort the evidence to fit it. I think the at majority of your interpretations are wrong and the onus is on you to prove things like "acting weird" and "Quentyn lives". Hint: you're failing to prove anything at all. It's not my job to prove your argument wrong, its your job to convince me your argument is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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