Quentyn Martell ADWD (spoilers)

[Cheesedude]

I would not be particulary surprised if Quentyn is alive. I would also not be particulary surprised if he's dead. I 100% thought he was dead on my first read, but I picked up on Arch and Drink acting a bit odd in the second read.

Seeing two Dornishmen in the pit with a burned body nearby would lead everyone to the assumptution that the body was the third Dornishman. But he doesn't have to be. And as much as Barristan believes its Quentyn, he was so severly burned that you could not make a claim based on facial recongization. Barristan is not claiming "he looks like Quentyn". He's claiming he believes its Quentyn, probably because he was with the other Dornishmen. Its not outside the realm of possibility that he's alive and that Arch and Drink are pretending he's dead to give him time. If he is alive, the ruse won't last long, just until he returns with the dragon.

Having watched the Dornish Master Plan videos, I cannot believe all of it. However, I'd be shocked if at least SOME of what's in those videos doesn't turn out to be true.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Say they told Barristan "oh my gods, Quentyn rode off on a dragon!" What would Barristan do next? He would send Brazen Beasts to arrest Quentyn in his pyramid.

Ehm.. Quentyn didn't have his own pyramid? He was given rooms in Dany's pyramid, if my memory is correct.

As to why Gerris and Arch are acting "weird" when talking to Barristan (I personally don't think they act weird at all, but that's how others described it).

Gerris and Yronwood were told (parts of) Dorans plans. While talking to Barristan, all that seems to be going on is one of the two trying to make certain that the other won't even get a chance to say anything that could point Barristan into the directions of those plans, whatever they might be.

[dbrandow]

The chapter is told from Quentyn's POV, and he sees his own hand, and then the rest of him, being burned. I suppose, if you stretched it a great deal, you could argue that he might not have died from that, that they then burned someone else and then swapped their places. Or you could argue that Quentyn didn't actually die from being burned, but somehow survived (presumably well-scarred, by that point). I can't, however, buy the argument that he, while his flesh was burning, leaped on top of a dragon and flew away, that seems absurd. The only other argument you could make is that that chapter is being told from the POV of someone who thinks he is Quentyn, but is actually someone else, something that also seems absurd. Overall, it seems like an awfully big stretch to think that he could be alive, and an almost impossibly big stretch to think that he could have left that scene on a dragon's back. More so because in preview chapters we see Viserion flying over the battle with noone on its back.

[Lord Defiance]

If you're referring to this, read carefully and you'll see it says "it was never the case that all Targaryens are immune to all fire at all times." Which leaves plenty of room the maintain some Targaryens could be immune to fire some of the time.

If you're referring to this Chilly has the right of it, immunity may be too strong a word as Dany's hair can easily be burned. Resistance then.

But there is another way to square these statements: There may not be a Targaryen resistance to fire, but you may get it if you are Blood of the Dragon, which does not require you to be a Targaryen.

Either way, neither of these amounts to a slam dunk rebuttal to QIA.

Dany was immune to the fire in this scene because of magic.

You are looking at what he says in the wrong way, as he is referring to how she is immune to fire in that scene. Plus HBO is stupid and used that egg scene, which made people think she was immune to fire.

Also for those saying he stole a dragon... How did he if both dragons are in Meereen right now? I highly doubt the dragon he took flew him away, then returned.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Quentyn is told by his father that he should fear for the Lannisters because they might be watching Dany. We know that's not true. Neither Tywin nor Cersei care. Doran is either very bad informed or he lied to Quentyn for some idiot reason. Doran's plans aren't bad but he's not the great master planner people think he is. There is no Dornish master plan. Doran doesn't even have the right information. Doran sent Quentyn to Meereen to walk around in circles and it ended up right as it should have ended when things are so badly planned: it ended badly.

[John Suburbs]

Where's that 'banging head against the wall' emoticon?

As Skin explained in his previous post, they didn't know the way out. This is the first time they've been to the pit, and even Quent has trouble remembering the twists and turns they need to get to the dragons.

Why would Barristan arrest them? Oh, I dunno, maybe for trying to steal the Queen's dragons?

And again, as explained numerous times in previous posts, he hasn't tamed the dragon, any more than Dany has tamed Drogon.

[RoamingRonin]

Where's that 'banging head against the wall' emoticon?

As Skin explained in his previous post, they didn't know the way out. This is the first time they've been to the pit, and even Quent has trouble remembering the twists and turns they need to get to the dragons.

Why would Barristan arrest them? Oh, I dunno, maybe for trying to steal the Queen's dragons?

And again, as explained numerous times in previous posts, he hasn't tamed the dragon, any more than Dany has tamed Drogon.

Which is it? They stayed behind because they couldn't find the exit or they stayed behind to help fake Quentyn's death? It can't be both because the ideas contradict each other.

All three men have to be in on the plot to fake Quentyn's death. Because if Quentyn isn't aware and suddenly he appears riding on Viserion the plot is ruined. If Archibald or Gerris confesses Quentyn is still alive then Quentyn is hiding for nothing.

If they didn't know the way out they could have followed behind the dragons or any of the people fleeing the pyramid. "They didn't know the way out" is the weakest of excuses.

Dany can control Drogon. She can call him by name and he will come to her. Either Quentyn can control Viserion or he can't. He can't have limited control just so you can explain away why Viserion is flying around without a rider.

All of the parts of this theory don't come together as a whole.

[JonSnow4President]

Which is it? They stayed behind because they couldn't find the exit or they stayed behind to help fake Quentyn's death? It can't be both because the ideas contradict each other.

All three men have to be in on the plot to fake Quentyn's death. Because if Quentyn isn't aware and suddenly he appears riding on Viserion the plot is ruined. If Archibald or Gerris confesses Quentyn is still alive then Quentyn is hiding for nothing.

If they didn't know the way out they could have followed behind the dragons or any of the people fleeing the pyramid. "They didn't know the way out" is the weakest of excuses.

Dany can control Drogon. She can call him by name and he will come to her. Either Quentyn can control Viserion or he can't. He can't have limited control just so you can explain away why Viserion is flying around without a rider.

All of the parts of this theory don't come together as a whole.

Are you seriously saying Dany can completely control Drogon? I don't have ADWD, so I can't call :bs: on the call his name and he comes bit, but she surely does not have complete control. And since she doesn't, why are you expecting Quentyn to in this hypothetical situation?

[ChillyPolly]

Which is it? They stayed behind because they couldn't find the exit or they stayed behind to help fake Quentyn's death? It can't be both because the ideas contradict each other.

I'm not sure why you expect John Suburbs to be able to answer that question. There is insufficient data. Either explanation is reasonably consistent with Quentyn being alive. Hence, the fact that both explanations are possible is less his problem than it is yours.

All three men have to be in on the plot to fake Quentyn's death.

Two people NEED to be in on the plot: Gerris and Archie. Quentyn might be in on it too ... or not.

Because if Quentyn isn't aware and suddenly he appears riding on Viserion the plot is ruined.

If Quentyn decides to appear riding Viserion, he probably believes he can either fend for himself or escape Meereen. That's his decision. Until then, his friends' decision to cover for him is perfectly rational.

Dany can control Drogon.

Then why hasn't she returned to Meereen?

Either Quentyn can control Viserion or he can't.

Well then, maybe Quentyn cannot control Viserion ... yet.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Which is it? They stayed behind because they couldn't find the exit or they stayed behind to help fake Quentyn's death? It can't be both because the ideas contradict each other.

How do they contradict?

Let's recreate the scene with some fan fiction:

When we last saw Quentyn he was on fire.

Arch runs up puts him out.

"Are you okay?" asks Arch.

"I'm fine."

"You're burnt. We need to get out of here."

"I'm actually in a lot of pain. But, I'm....okay...watch out!"

The Windblown attack Quentyn, Drink and Arch. Tatters reveals himself. "Kill the Dornishmen and the dragons, damnit!"

The dragons start eating the Windblown. Munch. Munch "Arrrgggghhh" Tatters catches on fire. "Nooooooo!!!" He runs around the room.

"Those double-crossing bastards!" yells Drink.

Rhaegal leaves. Viserion starts heading for the door.

"Viserion!" yells Quentyn.

Viserion pauses and looks back. Quentyn heads towards him.

"What are you doing?" asks Drink

"He's mine!" Quentyn jumps on Viserion's back. Viserion heads off with Quentyn.

"Quentyn, stop!" yells Arch.

"We have to go after him!" says Drink.

"I don't remember the way, do you?" says Arch.

"No. Only Quentyn was paying attention." says Drink.

"Help me!" yells Tatters.

Arch puts him out. Drink draws his swords.

"You bastard! You almost got us killed!" yells Drink.

"So, much pain!!!" moans Tatters "Uggghhh" he falls to the ground.

Enter the Brazen Beasts.

Meanwhile.....

"Holy crap! I'm on a dragon! I think I'm burned pretty bad, but alive. Yes, alive! I did it! Didn't I? Where are we going? The pyramid? Okay. I'll rest up. Dany is going to be so impressed! And so will my asshole dad!"

[Bryanfury]

^^^^^ Hahahahahahhahaahaha oh wow, threads over. Well played, enjoy your 'theory' and I'll be sure to bookmark and bump this travesty when TWOW comes out.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Two people NEED to be in on the plot: Gerris and Archie. Quentyn might be in on it too ... or not.

Excuse me, are you saying that Quentyn might NOT be involved on the plot of faking his own death?

...what??

[RoamingRonin]

Absolutely no reason why they couldn't follow the dragon out.

And in your scenario, they just watched Quentyn ride off on a dragon. How were they supposed to know he would hide out to recover? Ah, because he said he's in a lot of pain. Gotcha.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Are you seriously saying Dany can completely control Drogon? I don't have ADWD, so I can't call :bs: on the call his name and he comes bit, but she surely does not have complete control. And since she doesn't, why are you expecting Quentyn to in this hypothetical situation?

Read your book then get back to me.

I'm not sure why you expect John Suburbs to be able to answer that question. There is insufficient data. Either explanation is reasonably consistent with Quentyn being alive. Hence, the fact that both explanations are possible is less his problem than it is yours.

Two people NEED to be in on the plot: Gerris and Archie. Quentyn might be in on it too ... or not.

If Quentyn decides to appear riding Viserion, he probably believes he can either fend for himself or escape Meereen. That's his decision. Until then, his friends' decision to cover for him is perfectly rational.

Then why hasn't she returned to Meereen?

Well then, maybe Quentyn cannot control Viserion ... yet.

I expect people to come prepared if they want to argue a theory. I'm not going to pressure anyone to make sense but it would help.

They all need to be in on the theory otherwise what's the point? If Quentyn is not in on it then he could suddenly reveal himself and ruin everything. If Quentyn did escape on Viserion then his plan was a success and they should all be escaping.

But, of course, Quent can't control Viserion 100%. He owns Viserion and rode Viserion but for "reasons" he can't do it again.

Let me admit I'm wrong here in that Dany doesn't have the control to guide Drogon back to Meereen (he resists going back and for good reason) but I'll quote the part where she calls him by name and he comes. And she rides him. She's rode him several times since the fighting pit.

Quentyn is dead.

[John Suburbs]

Excuse me, are you saying that Quentyn might NOT be involved on the plot of faking his own death?

...what??

If Quent did get out on a dragon and left Arch and Drink behind, then the fake death "plot" was more of a cover-up for convenience sake: A & D wanted Barry to think Quent was dying so he (Barry) wouldn't send the BBs after him (Quent). Quent was already gone by the time Barry showed up.

[ChillyPolly]

Excuse me, are you saying that Quentyn might NOT be involved on the plot of faking his own death?

Are you asking me to repeat myself? How many times? Quentyn, if alive, has been keeping a low profile for 3 days, probably in Viserion's lair. His reasons for keeping a low profile are understandable.

The decision by Archie and Gerris to tell Barristan that the injured man was Quentyn or (perhaps) merely to go with the flow and permit him to assume it, may have been made after Quentyn left, with no partipation from Quentyn. Or not. Either way, the decision is understandable.

Quentyn and his friends all understand the need for Quentyn to keep a low profile until he is ready. They don't necessarily need to coordinate every detail.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Excuse me, are you saying that Quentyn might NOT be involved on the plot of faking his own death?

...what??

The "plot" is nothing more than Drink and Arch sitting in a cell thinking about the best story to tell Barristan. I don't know why Quentyn's participation is needed.

I don't see how Quentyn would know unless right before leaving they quickly came up with something.

[John Suburbs]

Are you seriously saying Dany can completely control Drogon? I don't have ADWD, so I can't call :bs: on the call his name and he comes bit, but she surely does not have complete control. And since she doesn't, why are you expecting Quentyn to in this hypothetical situation?

I'm not sure why you expect John Suburbs to be able to answer that question. There is insufficient data. Either explanation is reasonably consistent with Quentyn being alive. Hence, the fact that both explanations are possible is less his problem than it is yours.

Two people NEED to be in on the plot: Gerris and Archie. Quentyn might be in on it too ... or not.

If Quentyn decides to appear riding Viserion, he probably believes he can either fend for himself or escape Meereen. That's his decision. Until then, his friends' decision to cover for him is perfectly rational.

Then why hasn't she returned to Meereen?

Well then, maybe Quentyn cannot control Viserion ... yet.

How do they contradict?

Let's recreate the scene with some fan fiction:

When we last saw Quentyn he was on fire.

Arch runs up puts him out.

"Are you okay?" asks Arch.

"I'm fine."

"You're burnt. We need to get out of here."

"I'm actually in a lot of pain. But, I'm....okay...watch out!"

The Windblown attack Quentyn, Drink and Arch. Tatters reveals himself. "Kill the Dornishmen and the dragons, damnit!"

The dragons start eating the Windblown. Munch. Munch "Arrrgggghhh" Tatters catches on fire. "Nooooooo!!!" He runs around the room.

"Those double-crossing bastards!" yells Drink.

Rhaegal leaves. Viserion starts heading for the door.

"Viserion!" yells Quentyn.

Viserion pauses and looks back. Quentyn heads towards him.

"What are you doing?" asks Drink

"He's mine!" Quentyn jumps on Viserion's back. Viserion heads off with Quentyn.

"Quentyn, stop!" yells Arch.

"We have to go after him!" says Drink.

"I don't remember the way, do you?" says Arch.

"No. Only Quentyn was paying attention." says Drink.

"Help me!" yells Tatters.

Arch puts him out. Drink draws his swords.

"You bastard! You almost got us killed!" yells Drink.

"So, much pain!!!" moans Tatters "Uggghhh" he falls to the ground.

Enter the Brazen Beasts.

Meanwhile.....

"Holy crap! I'm on a dragon! I think I'm burned pretty bad, but alive. Yes, alive! I did it! Didn't I? Where are we going? The pyramid? Okay. I'll rest up. Dany is going to be so impressed! And so will my asshole dad!"

Wow, I wish I had this much support when trying to explain how Tyrion was the target at the Purple Wedding and that the poison was in the pie. :)

[RoamingRonin]

Excuse me, are you saying that Quentyn might NOT be involved on the plot of faking his own death?

...what??

What's it matter if the person you're lying about being dead shows up flying around on a fire breathing dragon?

[HexMachina]

The "plot" is nothing more than Drink and Arch sitting in a cell thinking about the best story to tell Barristan. I don't know why Quentyn's participation is needed.

I don't see how Quentyn would know unless right before leaving they quickly came up with something.

Why is Quentyn just chilling in an empty Pyramid then? You say this is just Drink and Gerris, but Quentyn must be involved, otherwise he would make his way down into Meereen.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Then why hasn't she returned to Meereen?

Ehm,perhaps because Drogon returned to her side only on the last page or two of her very last POV of the book... And now she's first got Dothraki to deal with...?