Lord Wraith Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Yeah, who's Napoleon anyway? To be fair he is Corsican. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 God, one of the two examples French people have, it's him or Joan, all the time...You forgot Marie Antoinette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YunoGasai Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I think people give too much hate for Cat disliking Jon. He's the bastard child of her husband, a stain on her honour and a threat to her legitimate children. Not only that but he has lived in Winterfell as if he were one of the legitimate Stark children, her children. You can say well that's not his fault all you want but at the end of the day human emotions are not rational. you're right. Haters gonna hate and potatoes gonna potate. people also loves whitewashing their favorite characters when it suits them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YunoGasai Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 People don't believe that she's worse than, let's say, Cersei, Theon or Tywin. They're simply pissed off because they had higher expectations and Cat's demeanor promises too much while her actions deliver too little. 100% you are so right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kinkslayer Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Robb was dead, and yet Brynden refused to surrender Jeyne Westerling, the person he had sworn to protect to Robb, his queen. And he only surrendered, after Edmure somehow suddenly convinced him, after Edmure had been talking with Tom Sevenstrings. Did Edmure really had a chance of speaking with Tom of Sevens? If I remember correctly one of Jaime's squires and the girl from Harrenhall were in the tent when Jaime left. It is said that Brynden took the real Jayne with him, but if that did happen how Gawen Westerling (who was present in the siege of Riverrun) didn't protest that one of his daughters was missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Did Edmure really had a chance of speaking with Tom of Sevens? If I remember correctly one of Jaime's squires and the girl from Harrenhall were in the tent when Jaime left. It is said that Brynden took the real Jayne with him, but if that did happen how Gawen Westerling (who was present in the siege of Riverrun) didn't protest that one of his daughters was missing? Squires from houses that would turn the first chance they'd get: Vance, Piper. Wasn't it also the Vance squire who sent Jaime to Raventree to settle the Blackwood and Bracken feud, where a camp follower was with Bracken, and who knew which directin Jaime went before Brienne oh so coincidentally found him. As for his other squire with Pia... with the other 2 squires there, they could have snuck off for some nookie. I think Jeyne's with Edmure...But that Lannister escort is about to be overtaken and attacked by the former RR garrison with the Blackfish and most likely BwB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I think Jeyne's with Edmure...But that Lannister escort is about to be overtaken and attacked by the former RR garrison with the Blackfish and most likely BwB. Its going to be the prologue to Winds and it will be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Its going to be the prologue to Winds and it will be epic. I know :D And I expect it won't be the sole chapter in WoW where we finally get to see some highly needed payback. At the end of DwD, if you didn't pay close attention, it looks ike Boltons, Lannisters and Freys have won. They're at the cusp of victory. But the higher you are set up, the harder the fall. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Lord Wraith, Sweetsunray Didn't Jaime give orders to kill Edmure at the first sign of attack? This is how I came to believe that the Blackfish will save Jaime's life by getting Stoneheart under control and offering a trade of hostages. Otherwise, I don't see how Martin will write Jaime out of his predicament, as I'm sure he is not done with the Kingslayer. Granted there could be other ways, I just can't really think of any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Lord Wraith, Sweetsunray Didn't Jaime give orders to kill Edmure at the first sign of attack? This is how I came to believe that the Blackfish will save Jaime's life by getting Stoneheart under control and offering a trade of hostages. Otherwise, I don't see how Martin will write Jaime out of his predicament, as I'm sure he is not done with the Kingslayer. Granted there could be other ways, I just can't really think of any. When Edmure and the Westerlings departed, four hundred men rode with them; Jaime had doubled the escort again at the last moment. He rode with them a few miles, to talk with Ser Forley Prester. Though he bore a bull's head upon his surcoat and horns upon his helm, Ser Forley could not have been less bovine. He was a short, spare, hard-bitten man. With his pinched nose, bald pate, and grizzled brown beard, he looked more like an innkeep than a knight. "We don't know where the Blackfish is," Jaime reminded him, "but if he can cut Edmure free, he will." "That will not happen, my lord." Like most innkeeps, Ser Forley was no man's fool. "Scouts and outriders will screen our march, and we'll fortify our camps by night. I have picked ten men to stay with Tully day and night, my best longbowmen. If he should ride so much as a foot off the road, they will loose so many shafts at him that his own mother would take him for a goose." "Good." Jaime would as lief have Tully reach Casterly Rock safely, but better dead than fled. "Best keep some archers near Lord Westerling's daughter as well." Your train of thought is possible but the BWB and Blackfish know the Riverlands well. I'm sure they can pull it off. Jaime will need a hand escaping from the clutches of LSH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varyslostloveball Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 She met Jon and correctly realized he was a traitorous loser, duh. Was that not obvious? If only the powerful majesty of Lord Walders loins hadn't skewered her Starky sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Lord Wraith, thanks for the quote, I hope you are right and they can retrieve Edmure and Jeyne. Yeah, as far as Jaime goes I'm not a big fan, but it seems being hanged by Stoneheart would be a lackluster end for such a notorious character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Squires from houses that would turn the first chance they'd get: Vance, Piper. Wasn't it also the Vance squire who sent Jaime to Raventree to settle the Blackwood and Bracken feud, where a camp follower was with Bracken, and who knew which directin Jaime went before Brienne oh so coincidentally found him. As for his other squire with Pia... with the other 2 squires there, they could have snuck off for some nookie. I think Jeyne's with Edmure...But that Lannister escort is about to be overtaken and attacked by the former RR garrison with the Blackfish and most likely BwB.You forgot about a certain direwolf and a very large pack of guant grey wolves... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Lord Wraith, Sweetsunray Didn't Jaime give orders to kill Edmure at the first sign of attack? This is how I came to believe that the Blackfish will save Jaime's life by getting Stoneheart under control and offering a trade of hostages. Otherwise, I don't see how Martin will write Jaime out of his predicament, as I'm sure he is not done with the Kingslayer. Granted there could be other ways, I just can't really think of any. Yup. While your proposition seems like a good alternative, I expect things to pick up pace. Keeping Jaime as a hostage didn't work much the previous time they held him. How many RR men-at-arms left and disappeared in the woods? The BwB isn't the small rugged number anymore. They've become highly organized, suing fire signals, camp followers. They're basically militarized, especially since more soldiers must have joined their ranks. Then there are several Riverland houses who weren't even seen at the siege (liek Paege), and it seems some houses (Vance, Piper) who may have an inkling of what guerilla power and tactics have been built over the past 2 years... Houses who were at the siege, but hanging around more and eating food, rather than actually do something useful for the siege. And then yes, you have that gigantic wolf pack that's been hanging on the wall for a long time. We know the prologue will feature Jeyne Westerling in it. So, the book's going start with that escort. I doubt it'll be Jeyne Westerling at CR. Exchanging hostages will take too long (though Jaime indeed may be kept for similar purposes) for the plot to move. aFfC and aDwD were a slow build. WoW imo will start with a bang, or is that "pang" ;) Although it is possible that it might actually cost Edmure's life, and perhaps a Westerlling (though not Jeyne I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Your probably right, as Martin as a lot to do if he wants to finish on two books. Also considering, as you said, more hostages just drag it out further. I didn't know about Jeyne being in the prologue, that's interesting, especially since prologue POV's are prone to die. Then I hope the prologue isn't Jeyne or Edmure (which seems unlikely since Martin likes to build suspense). But even if they're not the POV I guess that still doesn't ensure their survival. Thx again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Your probably right, as Martin as a lot to do if he wants to finish on two books. Also considering, as you said, more hostages just drag it out further. I didn't know about Jeyne being in the prologue, that's interesting, especially since prologue POV's are prone to die. Then I hope the prologue isn't Jeyne or Edmure (which seems unlikely since Martin likes to build suspense). But even if they're not the POV I guess that still doesn't ensure their survival. Thx again. My money is on Forely Prestor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Your probably right, as Martin as a lot to do if he wants to finish on two books. Also considering, as you said, more hostages just drag it out further. I didn't know about Jeyne being in the prologue, that's interesting, especially since prologue POV's are prone to die. Then I hope the prologue isn't Jeyne or Edmure (which seems unlikely since Martin likes to build suspense). But even if they're not the POV I guess that still doesn't ensure their survival. Thx again. He'll probably choose for a lesser POV, possibly someone of the party being escorted like the younger sister... Someone we'd regard as sad to be dying but are not attached to, but it would make us bite our nails whether the rest of the hostages and Westerlings survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Sweetsunray@ Lord Wraith@ & King Ned Stark@ I have absolutely nothing to add to you speculations, but am thoroughly enjoying the story you are creating...I'm so on board with it.:b): I like Lost Melnibonean@ adding Nymeria & her wolves in the rescue also.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedCounselor Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 :agree: Interesting story indeed! Do we think Edmure will die due too his archer guard? What about Jeyne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The Freys and Lannisters were after Riverrun, that was what he was refusing to surrender. Edmure didnt need to convince him, once Edmure was back in Riverrun he was the legal ruler, it was his decision to submit. "Your uncle is an old man. Valiant, yes, but the best part of his life is done. He has no bride to grieve for him, no children to defend. A good death is all the Blackfish can hope for . . . but you have years remaining, Edmure. And you are the rightful lord of House Tully, not him. Your uncle serves at your pleasure. The fate of Riverrun is in your hands." Edmure stared. "The fate of Riverrun . . ." "Yield the castle and no one dies. Your smallfolk may go in peace or stay to serve Lord Emmon. That's not exactly true . Robb had made Brynden Tully the Warden of the Southern Marches so he was in charge of everything South of the Neck in Robb's Kingdom so Edmure would be under Brynden authority That's if they still considered themselves part of Robb's Kingdom . If they did not consider themselves part of Robb's kingdom then Emmon Frey is Lord of Riverrun and Edmure has no authority there . Either way Edmure was not Brynden's lord and could not order him to give up the castle but I'm sure they came up with a plan together and that's why they gave the castle up but If Brynden had not agreed to the plan then there is no way that the men in Riverrun would listen to Edmure over Brynden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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