Catelyn's venomous impact on Blackfish

[Paid Debt Lannister]

Is there no end to the vile treachery of that viper, Catelyn Stark? I need to start my thread about how she actually warged into Jaime and pushed Bran out the window because of her Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome...

That was nothing compared to when she smashed Aegon's head against the wall and raped Elia

I'm laughing so hard at these! Hahahaha, it is true, people on these forums have some kind of Catelyn-hate that I simply don't understand. Some readers have to realize thst charactersin ASOIAF have limited perspectives of reality, and that always leads them to wrong actions. Ned meant to kill Jorah, but that doesn't mean either is a bad guy; Daenerys still wants revenge on the "Usurper's dogs" because of the poor info she has on the time Aerys was king; hell, some people even say that Cersei and Jaime's actions throughout the books (pushing Bran, plotting against Margaery) are justified because of self-defense or justified paranoia. Why is it so difficult to understand that Catelyn hated Jon because she believes he represents Ned's betrayal on her? She never actually did him any harm. It's not because she doesn't like a character we like that she's this evil character everybody likes to say she has always been.

[Paid Debt Lannister]

Everyone knows that Cat is the main villain of the series. Just look at everything she's done:

She poisoned Jon Arryn and blamed it on the Lannisters.

She ganged raped a crofter's daughter with Tully bannermen and paid the girl a silver for each soldier the girl took.

While hunting along the Weeping Water, she hanged the local miller and raped his new bride--claiming it was her right as the Leech Lady of Winterfell.

She sent Falyse Stokeworth down to Qyburn's dungeon to die. This was after Cat gang raped her sister Lollys during the riot at King's Landing.

Catelyn is patient zero for both Greyscale and the Pale Mare.

She sold her little sister Lysa to a Dothraki horselord. Lysa then "woke the silver trout," so Cat shoved her out the Moon Door.

She rearmed the Faith Militant and refused to repay the Iron Bank.

She made Vargo Hoat eat his own limbs. This was after she bit off his ear and lied to him about sapphires.

Catelyn once opened her mouth and breathed fire down on Quentyn Martell. Oh.

She cut off Myrcella Baratheon's ear and then claimed to be "of the night."

While skinchanging at Riverrun, she had sex with another trout and enjoyed it.

She birthed the shadow demon that killed Renly, and then blamed Brienne for his death. Then she ate Brienne's face.

Cat is also the perfumed seneschal, the Storm God, and the Great Other.

She drove a sword through her son Robb's heart at Edmure's wedding.

She and Edmure then proceeded to copulate next to Robb's corpse while Cat was on her period.

She poisoned the honeyed locusts and regularly feasts on unborn puppies on sticks.

She beat Ned to death to maintain her honor after Euron defiled him.

She defecated on Oznak zo Pahl's corpse in front of the walls of Meereen. Then she wiped herself on his cloak.

She molested the Damphair when he was a child. Stoneheart has come again.

She shoved that stick up Arya's bunghole and fucked her bloody.

She chopped off Theon's manhood and fed it to the goats.

...the she smashed his fucking head in. Like this.

She fucks her sons, births more sons, and then fucks the new sons.

She has sacrificed dozens of infants named Sansa and Arya to the Others.

She's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moonboy for all I know.

I hear she goes by the nickname "Gatehouse Catelyn."

...But even worse than all that: she was emotionally cold toward her husband's by-blow when Bran was in a coma. THE HORROR!!!!!! (Never mind the fact that it was SHE who pushed Bran out of the window in the first place).

...Oh, and she's also the Harpy.

This, my lord, is the funniest thing I've ever read on these forums. Thank you so much for the laughter.

[Lord Wraith]

Could it be that Blackfish is aware that Sansa is in the Vale with Petyr? All other trueborn Starks are dead or presumed death and Jon is on the wall.  Jon has no Tully blood so I don't see why BF would support him.  Blackfish must know that some Stark heir is alive.  BF was like a father to Petyr when he was a kid a RR.

[ASOIAF_Ali]

The blackfish is Cat's uncle, so I don't see why it would seem weird that he would listen to her opinions about Jon. Cats view of Jon is a little harsh, but it's not like the blackfish is obliged to choose Jon over his own niece or even that he has any reason to question her judgement of him.

[sweetsunray]

I'm in the Blackfish protesting-too-much camp. I don't think Blackfish knew about Robb's will yet, until Edmure managed to get into RR to convince the Blackfish to surrender it. Edmure was one of the 5 who signed the will. So, he definitely knows the content. Edmure also had ample time to speak with Tom Sevenstrings while taking his bath, to learn of any plans the BwB have (remember LS has Robb's crown), before going into RR. And Jaime noticed Edmure seemed rather too happy for being a prisoner for the rest of his life after the surrender. Edmure didn't surrender RR until the ultimate deadline. The Blackfish escaped. The whole garrisson surrenders arms and disappears in the woods (where Daven saw signal fires and felt watched), and the castellan and master-of-arms take the black to go to the Wall. 

 

But the Blackfish was with Robb in the Westerlands for a long time, and would have heard Robb's assessment on Jon, plenty. But certainly Edmure would have told Brynden about the will as well as information regarding the BwB's possible help. They concocted a plan, involving 2 trusted men to go to the Wall, most likely regarding Robb's will, Blackfish escaping and connect with the BwB, to rescue Edmure while he (and Jeyne) are taken on the road to CR.

[Lord Wraith]

I'm in the Blackfish protesting-too-much camp. I don't think Blackfish knew about Robb's will yet, until Edmure managed to get into RR to convince the Blackfish to surrender it. Edmure was one of the 5 who signed the will. So, he definitely knows the content. Edmure also had ample time to speak with Tom Sevenstrings while taking his bath, to learn of any plans the BwB have (remember LS has Robb's crown), before going into RR. And Jaime noticed Edmure seemed rather too happy for being a prisoner for the rest of his life after the surrender. Edmure didn't surrender RR until the ultimate deadline. The Blackfish escaped. The whole garrisson surrenders arms and disappears in the woods (where Daven saw signal fires and felt watched), and the castellan and master-of-arms take the black to go to the Wall. 

 

But the Blackfish was with Robb in the Westerlands for a long time, and would have heard Robb's assessment on Jon, plenty. But certainly Edmure would have told Brynden about the will as well as information regarding the BwB's possible help. They concocted a plan, involving 2 trusted men to go to the Wall, most likely regarding Robb's will, Blackfish escaping and connect with the BwB, to rescue Edmure while he (and Jeyne) are taken on the road to CR.

 

Why would Robb bring up Jon during the war? I agree however with the Edmure/Blackfish/BWB portion.  They are all working together now. I wonder if BF had any connection before hand with the BWB.

[VenezuelanLord]

 
Why would Robb bring up Jon during the war? I agree however with the Edmure/Blackfish/BWB portion.  They are all working together now. I wonder if BF had any connection before hand with the BWB.

Perhaps telling his men of a time whenbhe practiced with his Half brother?, i cant think of another situation where Robbs could mention Jon in the war.. except of of course the will..

I do think the BF was protecting Jon, and all the BWB activities regarding RR, seems like a plan is cooking..

[aryagonnakill#2]

ASOIAF_Ali, The Blackfish swore to Robb he was his king and would obey him, Robb named Jon heir, specifically disinheriting Sansa, so the Blackfish is obliged to back Jon over Sansa.

[sweetsunray]

 

Why would Robb bring up Jon during the war? I agree however with the Edmure/Blackfish/BWB portion.  They are all working together now. I wonder if BF had any connection before hand with the BWB.

 

Because he's human? Even when people go to war, they socialize, and the Blackfish is family to boot.

[ASOIAF_Ali]

ASOIAF_Ali, The Blackfish swore to Robb he was his king and would obey him, Robb named Jon heir, specifically disinheriting Sansa, so the Blackfish is obliged to back Jon over Sansa.

Ok fair enough, thanks. But would that work in practice though? I just can't see the blackfish siding with Jon over his family??

[sweetsunray]

Ok fair enough, thanks. But would that work in practice though? I just can't see the blackfish siding with Jon over his family??

 

What family? Catelyn's dead, Robb's dead, Lysa's dead; he believes Bran and Rickon are dead, fArya married to a Bolton, Sansa married to a Lannister and up and disappeared. There's only Edmure, Jon and Robin Arryn left. He definitely knows Robin Arryn's a sickly, spoiled child. And Edmure's a Tully. Jon Snow is the sole possible candidate to follow in Robb's and Ned's Stark footsteps.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

ASOIAF_Ali, The Blackfish swore to Robb he was his king and would obey him, Robb named Jon heir, specifically disinheriting Sansa, so the Blackfish is obliged to back Jon over Sansa.

 

I'm not sure it really works like that. He sided with Robb because he Cat's son. He was family. That same family obligation is not there with Jon, him being something of a stranger. It is not like the Blackfish is some staunch supporter of Northern independence or that he has particular strong (or any ties) to the North outside of Cat and her children.

 

It is hugely unlikely that he would back some bastard he's never met over the spitting image of his niece, especially if she is backed by Lysa's son Robin.

 

Regarding Robbs will, it is unlikely that the Blackfish knows about it as he was at Riverrun when Robb wrote it. On the way to the Twins Robb gets all melancholic as he sees the tomb(?) of the Mudds and thinks about the death of his own dynasty so consults with his  mother and writes his will.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

He definitely knows Robin Arryn's a sickly, spoiled child.

 

So?

 

Do you think he is going to give up on one of the last members of his family because of this?

[ASOIAF_Ali]

 
I'm not sure it really works like that. He sided with Robb because he Cat's son. He was family. That same family obligation is not there with Jon, him being something of a stranger. It is not like the Blackfish is some staunch supporter of Northern independence or that he has particular strong (or any ties) to the North outside of Cat and her children.
 
It is hugely unlikely that he would back some bastard he's never met over the spitting image of his niece, especially if she is backed by Lysa's son Robin.
 
Regarding Robbs will, it is unlikely that the Blackfish knows about it as he was at Riverrun when Robb wrote it. On the way to the Twins Robb gets all melancholic as he sees the tomb(?) of the Mudds and thinks about the death of his own dynasty so consults with his  mother and writes his will.

This is what I was trying to say before. I don't see why blackfish would side with Jon, they're not family and he owes him nothing.

[Ser Belwas The Strong]

Are the Tullys the true villains of the series? with the exception of Edmure "The Good" Tully of course.

[Lord Wraith]

 

So?

 

Do you think he is going to give up on one the last members of his family because of this?

 

Family, Duty, Honor says otherwise.

 

This is what I was trying to say before. I don't see why blackfish would side with Jon, they're not family and he owes him nothing.

 

Indeed.

[sweetsunray]

This is what I was trying to say before. I don't see why blackfish would side with Jon, they're not family and he owes him nothing.

 

Sweetrobin is not even related to the Starks. He never cared much for the boy when he was still in the Vale. How would that work? He didn't fly Arryn banners at RR, did he?

 

Blackfish's primary oaths to Robb concern Jeyne Westerling. He didn't even want to surrender RR for Edmure's life. So, basically he chooses the late king's wife over his own family. You'd think he'll back Sansa over Robb's last will? The evidence and his behaviour point strongly to "no".

 

I agree that he most likely did not know about Robb's will when he parlayed with Jaime. But Edmure would have told him. So, he knows now. It's the reason imo 2 very loyal men took the black. And they wouldn't have done so without Brynden's instructions.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^Agree on all counts, 2 skilled men taking the black right when they know winter is coming of all times...

[ASOIAF_Ali]

 
Sweetrobin is not even related to the Starks? He never cared much for the boy when he was still in the Vale. How would that work? He didn't fly Arryn banners at RR, did he?
 
Blackfish's primary oaths to Robb concern Jeyne Westerling. He didn't even want to surrender RR for Edmure's life. So, basically he chooses the late king's wife over his own family. You'd think he'll back Sansa over Robb's last will? The evidence and his behaviour point strongly to "no".
 
I agree that he most likely did not know about Robb's will when he parlayed with Jaime. But Edmure would have told him. So, he knows now. It's the reason imo 2 very loyal men took the black. And they wouldn't have done so without Brynden's instructions.

Fair enough 😊

[Taenqyrhae]

I actually think the Blackfish doth protest too much here. The Blackfish, being the closest thing Robb had to a Hand, almost certainly knew that Robb named Jon as his heir, even if he wasn't present for the actual will-signing. As such, it's in his interest to feign a disconnect with and distrust of Jon. If people think that Robb's bannermen intend to crown Jon or rally behind him, that gives them motivation to attack Jon or try to kill him. The Blackfish putting on a show for Jaime's benefit means that the Lannisters won't consider Jon to be in league with the Blackfish or anyone else, and will for the time being leave him alone.

You know, I had never considered Robb's connection to Blackfish much at this scene, and this does make perfect sense.  It would be just like the wily Blackfish to pull this off convincingly enough to even trick readers who knew about the Robb-Jon-Blackfish connection.