Which great houses produce the best warriors

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

The point was not that Ned had any feelings toward Ashara Dayne in fact he does not matter, but you do not help your brother to dance with a girl you're gonna bed a few hours later.

Why not? He is not helping him dance with her so that Ned and her can hit it off, he's helping him dance with her to have fun.

I may be wrong, but I think that the status of a crown Prince is an advantage in jousting, atleast against men from lesser houses, or atleast this is what I inferred from Valarr's fights in 'The Hedge Knight'. Not saying Rhaegar was bad or anything, but I wouldn't go sofar as to class him in the same league as Dane, Selmy et all.

Selmy has unhorsed Rhaegar before Harrenhall so he definitely has no reason to go easy on him since he's already beaten him before.

Edit: Ninja'd

[James Arryn]

Why not? He is not helping him dance with her so that Ned and her can hit it off, he's helping him dance with her to have fun.

Selmy has unhorsed Rhaegar before Harrenhall so he definitely has no reason to go easy on him since he's already beaten him before.

Edit: Ninja'd

My sense is he somewhat combined Loras' born-on-a-horse with Jaime's size/strength/speed. I think he lacked something in passion for battle, but he probably made up for it by being smarter than everyone he was facing.

Edit, I think to a slightly lesser degree, he and Dayne were like Loras and Garlan. Both exceptional at both, but the one a tick better with the sword, the other a tick better with the lance.

[DaarioBigalowTyroshiGigolo]

House Darklyn? They produced 7 Kingsguard Knights.

[James Arryn]

House Darklyn? They produced 7 Kingsguard Knights.

People don't read my posts. :(

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

My sense is he somewhat combined Loras' born-on-a-horse with Jaime's size/strength/speed. I think he lacked something in passion for battle, but he probably made up for it by being smarter than everyone he was facing.

I agree. Barristan indicates that he lacks the passion for fighting that makes him, Jaime, Robert, and possibly the other greats really good at what they do. That's probably what seperates Rhaegar with those guys while still not being too far behind.

[James Arryn]

I agree. Barristan indicates that he lacks the passion for fighting that makes him, Jaime, Robert, and possibly the other greats really good at what they do. That's probably what seperates Rhaegar with those guys while still not being too far behind.

Yeah, otoh, I think he wouldn't lose control as some of the others might be prone to.

And if we remember that most nobles in battle fight from horseback, I think we might consider him as good as anyone.

[Zoravar Singh]

He beat Dayne both times they met, and he and Selmy were 1-1 (Rhaegar's only loss, in the finals) and Selmy remembers losing with regret. One of the times he beat Dayne they broke a dozen lances first...not the kind of thing you can fake.

What effect would being Prince have? I honestly don't understand the argument, unless you're saying Rhaegar cheated like Valarr. But no one thinks of him that way, and you don't have to be a Prince to cheat.

He probably didn't cheat then. And the crown prince advantage I referred to was basically people delibrately missing Valarr as their target, which may have been due to his staus as a prince OR a predetermined plan. the one who cheated outright was Aerion.

[Ulthosian Stark]

Define best?

If its getting away with it the house of black and white lol

If its being sneaky its the Crannogs. I say them as they're into poison and staying hidden, as opposed to Oberyns style of upfront poisoned blade sneakiness. Which got him killed when right now he could be leading a revolt against Tywin.

If its sheer single combat I think clegane has it here for the best. Both of the current sons are HUGE and are considered fearsome warriors. Would be one hell of a match for the dragonknight or the Laughing Storm, and even the Red Viper. The Thenns are up there as well.

Also the mormonts, what with all of Jonahs (mainly against slavers and dothraki) and Jeors (against the undead, winning at the fist) exploits.

[jon rhaegar stark]

about Rhaegar being the warrior , just because he was slain by Robert dosent mean he is not a good warrior ...its just Robert was best on that day ...see what happened at TOJ with 3 KG defeated by average fighters

and if you read the Mahabartha (hindu mythology )there were lots of best warriors like Bhishma and Karna who are defeated by Arjuna ...but they are all best known warriors in the world

[James Arryn]

about Rhaegar being the warrior , just because he was slain by Robert dosent mean he is not a good warrior ...its just Robert was best on that day ...see what happened at TOJ with 3 KG defeated by average fighters

and if you read the Mahabartha (hindu mythology )there were lots of best warriors like Bhishma and Karna who are defeated by Arjuna ...but they are all best known warriors in the world

I actually think that fight speaks very highly of Rhaegar, and confirms what his jousting suggests. Robert...one of the greatest fighters of his age...had pretty much every advantage: in equipment, in motivation, in experience and in size, and yet it was a legendary bout in which Robert was wounded, and Rhaegar's fighting honourably may or may not have been another factor which worked against him.

Whenever 2 exceptional fighters fight to the death, one will still have to lose.

[jon rhaegar stark]

I actually think that fight speaks very highly of Rhaegar, and confirms what his jousting suggests. Robert...one of the greatest fighters of his age...had pretty much every advantage: in equipment, in motivation, in experience and in size, and yet it was a legendary bout in which Robert was wounded, and Rhaegar's fighting honourably may or may not have been another factor which worked against him.

Whenever 2 exceptional fighters fight to the death, one will still have to lose.

:agree: exactly my point too only one can survive if two fights

and i dont think the odds favored Rhaegar going against the war hammer of Robert with a sword ...i always wanted to know how it would have been if they both fought with swords ...maybe others think it doesnt make much of a difference but for me its one of the difference

[James Arryn]

:agree: exactly my point too only one can survive if two fights

and i dont think the odds favored Rhaegar going against the war hammer of Robert with a sword ...i always wanted to know how it would have been if they both fought with swords ...maybe others think it doesnt make much of a difference but for me its one of the difference

That's what I meant by equipment. I think Rhaegar was there to win a battle, and so used sword and lance. Robert was there to kill Rhaegar, and so used war-hammer.

[PirateVergo]

Always excuses for Rhaegar's performance against Robert.

He wasn't a genius like Dayne,Selmy or Jaime, I don't even think he was as good as Loras Tyrell or Sandor.

[jon rhaegar stark]

That's what I meant by equipment. I think Rhaegar was there to win a battle, and so used sword and lance. Robert was there to kill Rhaegar, and so used war-hammer.

my mistake sorry for not noticing that

i like how you put this and it also speaks about their characters too and what they want personally

[James Arryn]

Always excuses for Rhaegar's performance against Robert.

He wasn't a genius like Dayne,Selmy or Jaime, I don't even think he was as good as Loras Tyrell or Sandor.

Excuses?

Here is a truth: if Arthur Dayne fought Daemon Blackfyre, one of them would lose.

[PirateVergo]

Here is a truth: if Arthur Dayne fought Daemon Blackfyre, one of them would lose.

And both would murder Robert Baratheon.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Excuses?

Here is a truth: if Arthur Dayne fought Daemon Blackfyre, one of them would lose.

And the one that lost would be deemed an overrated warrior by the fanbase.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

And both would murder Robert Baratheon.

Doubt it. I don't understand why people assume that the gap between these guys are huge. It's not like Arthur or Daemon were one man armies. I don't think Robert is better than either(though he is very close), but he showed a lot more in very little time than Arthur Dayne did in his entire career. A fight between the two is by no means a cakewalk for either fighter and probably goes 55-45 or 60-40 in favor of Arhur.

[michaelx]

Dayne House by far.

Arthur Dayne is like legendary super saiyan - once in 1000 years.

[James Arryn]

And both would murder Robert Baratheon.

Without Valyrian steel, and in the circumstances of the Trident?

George's whole ethos on this as articulated by Selmy is this: among the elites, there is no such thing as being unbeatable. Fights can turn on so many little things, most of them having nothing to do with skill or merit: a rock turns, a foot slips, a champion dies. All of the guys we're talking about could kill all the others on any given day. I think we could rank them in terms of who would probably win more often, but they are all elite.