A War of Oafs.

[Sir Lee knot]

What if, Ramsay Snow, Theon Greyjoy, Joffrey Waters and Viserys Targaryen all had to fight the War of Five Kings without any help whatsoever from their families. The Goal is total destruction of their opponents. Which evil moron comes out on top?

For this scenario:

- Ramsay is King of the North and the Trident.

- Theon is King of the Iron Isles.

- Joffrey is King of the Iron Throne and the Lannister lands.

- Viserys controls the Golden Company and starts off on Dragonstone.

- All of the Kingdoms that are unmentioned stay neutral.

I think Joffrey loses the quickest by either being so bad at ruling that his own lords turn against him or Ramsay simply defeats him swiftly on the field. Then Ramsay and Viserys rough it out in the south while Theon takes much of the north. Ramsay is also pretty bad at ruling so with the loss of much of the north I feel like some of his lords start working against him. Overall I think Theon comes out on top even though Ramsay is probably the smartest of the bunch. Theon is just in a much better position.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Ramsay wins.

[Winter'sFallen]

Viserys is too impatient & attacks KL with 1 company of sellswords from an island that may be a reliable defensive position, but unless it has hidden offensive abilities, Joff takes Viserys out of the picture right away. Unless Theon or Ramsay develop some serious negotiating skills with the south, they are both still completely isolated & in no way able to contest for the IT. That said, I think Theon lives the longest, simply by not being a complete butthead tyrant, but only if he doesn't confront the other 2 directly. As much as I'd like to say something different, the IT doesn't change hands.

Single combat...hands down Ramsay.

[Runs With Direwolves]

Theon and Ramsey fight it out over the North and Riverlands. Ramsey wins due to the Ironborn not having naval advantage.

Viserys destroys Joffrey with the GC and retakes KL, then Ramsey wakes the dragon by threatening to make himself a dragonskin coat and Viserys marches north with the GC and meets his end at Moat Cailin. Lots more dead knights in the marshes.

Ramsey Snow First of his Name, King of the Andals and First Men.

(I pity the commonfolk)

[A Bastard Snow]

Ramsey is great at war hes just terrible at...not killing people so he would win then get poisoned or betrayed somehow

[Minsc]

Why would Ramsay control the Riverlands?

[I Remain Unvanquished]

Well the northmen would assassinate Ramsay within a week and either crown a new king or bend the knee to Viserys, him being the one of the three they hate the least. I'd put my money of Joffery simply because he has the manpower and resources of the Westerlands at his disposal. the Golden Company is formidible but with just Dragonstone they wouldn't stand a chance against The Crownlands and the West and the Ironborn are good at sea battles and pillaging but have a hard time holding anything inland. Though if the north and trident bend the knee to Viserys after Ramsay kicks the bucket he might have a chance.

[The Santa of House Claus]

I got to give it to Ramsay. I do not think the armies would be all the motivated to fight for Joffrey or Viseyrs, well for any of them, but these 2 the most and it would be possible that they could turn on him and side with another, especially the Golden Company. Theon proved just enough that he can lead, to a degree, but put the Iron Born on land against another standing army, and I am not sure how well they would do.

Where as Ramsay maybe a psychopath, he does seem to instill a mixture of loyalty and fear amongst his followers. He is also, probably the best commander. While Joff and Vis may have excellent commanders under them, it would be unlikely that they, Joff and Vis, would listen to them to much and insist on leading the armies themselves as well as using their own battle plans. Which would lead to humiliation, defeat, and mutiny. Theon would be a decent commander and have some good strategies, I just do not think he would have the men to win.

[Good Guy Garlan]

How on earth is Theon an "oaf"?

He knew the Ironborn could use an alliance with the North, he came up with the idea of attacking the West from both sides, he came up with the plan of attacking Torrhen's Square to draw attention from Winterfell, etc. His big failure was staying there instead of taking Bran and Rickon to Pyke.

If anything, you should change the OP and have Balon instead of Theon, cause he is the true oaf.

Anyway, Theon wins, hands down. He proposes an alliance to Ramsay, as they both are declaring independence. Unlike Balon, he attacks the West. The Golden Company is not near enough for Viserys to win, but he still takes a big chunk of Joffrey's power before going down himself. Eventually Joff loses too, which only leaves the Theon-Ramsay alliance, but in time even the northmen and riverlords get fed up with Ramsay's bullshit and kill him to raise another king, or hell, even declaring for Theon, who compared to Ramsay seems like the perfect king.

[JoeyBanana]

Theon!

The others are either smart or stupid psychopaths and neither of them have shown any ability to be capable at ruling, politics, or strategy. The only one who had really training and education in these matters is Theon. He's also not nuts, that helps a lot.

The Kraken's Son would just have to wait until these cray crays lose all their support from the various sane lords and lord paramounts.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Yeah, I think Ramsay and Theon would both see the advantage of an alliance in this scenario (since they are both trying to become independent Kings), and then Viserys/Joffrey would be toast

[Rhaegar the Dragon Prince]

I would Imagine that Viserys would go straight for King's Landing and take the city with the GC. Joffery's head would be on a pike, then a new Warden of the West would be named and bend the knee. Viserys would then want to Conquer ALL Seven Kingdoms, and so he goes to war with Ramsay in the Riverlands. If I were Ramsay I would take my strength to Moat Cailin and let Viserys break himself against it, like all those who have tried before. But this is Ramsay however, so he would march his army South and meet Viserys in the field. While this is going on, Theon takes Moat Cailin from behind, the starts taking Northern Castles one by one. If he would pull of the same bait and switch trick with Winterfell, he could convince the Northern Lords' Castellans that he would be a far better ruler than Ramsay and Theon takes the North. Back in the Riverlands, Viserys has beaten Ramsay due to the Golden Company having very experienced members and advisers. Theon then fortifies Moat Cailin and Viserys breaks himself against it. Theon wins due to not being a psychopath and actually having some knowledge of war.

[Sir Lee knot]

Viserys is too impatient & attacks KL with 1 company of sellswords from an island that may be a reliable defensive position, but unless it has hidden offensive abilities, Joff takes Viserys out of the picture right away. Unless Theon or Ramsay develop some serious negotiating skills with the south, they are both still completely isolated & in no way able to contest for the IT. That said, I think Theon lives the longest, simply by not being a complete butthead tyrant, but only if he doesn't confront the other 2 directly. As much as I'd like to say something different, the IT doesn't change hands.

Single combat...hands down Ramsay.

I think you put way to much stock in Joffrey. Tywin and Tyrion kept Joffrey on the throne but without them handling everything from the war to public relations I'd give Joffrey a few months at best before his lords turn on him and everything crumbles down.

Why would Ramsay control the Riverlands?

Just to put him in the same scenario Robb was and so he is geographically connected to Joffrey. But if you want a real reason let's just assume Walder Frey is lord paramount of the Trident and Ramsay married one of his daughters.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Theon, hands down. Of all four candidates, he is the only one who received a complete education in politics and military strategy (or ratheer any education at all), and except when fucked by a lot of emotional trouble about family, he's rather rational. Again, the only one.

Same for single combat at that.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I say Theon because he is clever. I think he would make an arrangement with one of the people (except Ramsay) and then in the end find out a way to take his partner out only AFTER they took care of the other king who is not Ramsay.

However, I'd say Ramsay and Theon would war for a long time, as would Viserys and Joff.

Joff/Viserys kind of off set each other as megalomaniac cowards, while Theon and Ramsay offset each other by actually being clever, just being greedy and at times very uncaring.

[Winter'sFallen]

I think you give Joff a little too much credit. Ramsay would smash any army led by Joff, as would Theon. Only way Joff would win would be to leave the fighting and diplomacy to Tywin and his uncles and stay as far away from an actual battle command as possible.

If Joff insisted on and did lead against Ramsay his flesh would keep Ramsays father leech lord warm through the winter.

I hated to say Joff, but I think it would be easier not to screw up defense long enough for Viserys to kill his hopes in KL. The rest is dependent upon how the south reacted. I agree that out of all of them Theon might be the only one to avoid reacting purely on vengeance, which is why I think if anyone could marshall the rest of Westeros against KL it's Theon. & Joff is such a rotten little brat that he would likely done in by his own circle, but so might Ramsey or Viserys.

But, if the question is who holds the IT when it's all done? I'd really have to go with non of the above, not enough loyalty or tact in J, V, R...too much public baggage for T to ever survive a campaign.