Joffery should've been warded at Winterfell.

[Boarsbane]

Tywin was an atrocious parent and his wife was dead. Joff would've probably ended up just as messed up if not more.

Nah Tywin would of broken him easy enough and at the very least taught him to keep his emotions in check and to hide his nature better, which would of helped a lot.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

I always find it funny to see Cersei get the entire blame for Joffrey, like none of the adult men in his life had any responsibility to how the heir of the Throne turned out.

• Robert was as much to blame for his upbringing.
  
• Jaime had nothing to do with his nephew/son
  
• Renly was actively trying to get Robert a new wife so he could have more power in a Tyrell court rather than a Lannister one. Even though he thought Joffrey was his legitimate nephew, he tried to usurp him.
  
• Tyrion; the first we see of the two of them together is Tyrion slapping his 12 year old nephew. It was an antagonistic relationship which the adult is more to blame than the child.
  
• Stannis is Stannis.
  
• Arryn; did a pretty crappy job of raising Robert so its no suprise he failed the heir of the Kingdom.
  
• Ned was so focused on trying to find dirt on the Lannisters, a family he despised before Bran fell, that he ignored the 12 year old who was betrothed to his daughter. Had he spent more time with his future son in law rather than playing detective everyone would be much better off.
  

Joffrey during the first half of AGOT is just a spoilt, petulant, mean 12 year old child. Then his father dies, his Uncles raise armies to kill him and Ned is calling him and his siblings bastards, which more than likely ends with their execution. Of course he flipped in that situation.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Nah Tywin would of broken him easy enough and at the very least taught him to keep his emotions in check and to hide his nature better, which would of helped a lot.

He could have went to Winterfell. After all Ned raised Robb, the first Stark to lose the North. Clearly Ned skipped a few lessons on self preservation. Oh yeah, he also raised Theon.

[Boarsbane]

He could have went to Winterfell. After all Ned raised Robb, the first Stark to lose the North. Clearly Ned skipped a few lessons on self preservation. Oh yeah, he also raised Theon.

Good point, Ned's actual son was a poor king, Joffrey is a bad enough king without Ned's influence.

[WildBlood]

Joff could have been raised by wolves and turned out better.... lol

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Joffrey during the first half of AGOT is just a spoilt, petulant, mean 12 year old child. Then his father dies, his Uncles raise armies to kill him and Ned is calling him and his siblings bastards, which more than likely ends with their execution. Of course he flipped in that situation.

All the signs were there already. He just needed that little nudge.

But I think the reason they added that scene in the show where Cersei is getting into Joff's head that everyone else is an enemy was to portray the fact that his upbringing is primarily her fault. The men are largely absent, from what we can tell (kind of strange considering he was the crowned prince), while she is very active in his development.

Also, don't forget the incident with the cat. That's a red flag he was going to be a psychopath.

Also also don't forget Robert's conversation with Ned. He knows what Joff really is, even then.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

All the signs were there already. He just needed that little nudge.

Which makes the situation even crazier. "oh the signs are there so we should do NOTHING, no teaching no guidance lets just accept that he's possibly going to be a monster". Pretty pathetic from the King, his Hand and his brothers and brothers-in-law.

Also, don't forget the incident with the cat. That's a red flag he was going to be a psychopath.

This is a medieval setting, they are not going to have the same reverence we have for pets. and Neither parent eve taught him it was wrong.

And even in todays day and age a 5-8 year old child who has tortured an animal is not an automatic danger.

Also also don't forget Robert's conversation with Ned. He knows what Joff really is, even then.

So he knew what his son and heir was and chose to ignore it. He could have tried to be a better father, but clearly the better option was to ignore it. Clearly that makes him the worse parent.

[David Selig]

Nah Tywin would of broken him easy enough and at the very least taught him to keep his emotions in check and to hide his nature better, which would of helped a lot.

Sure, because Tywin's own kids are so good at keeping their emotions in check...

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Which makes the situation even crazier. "oh the signs are there so we should do NOTHING, no teaching no guidance lets just accept that he's possibly going to be a monster". Pretty pathetic from the King, his Hand and his brothers and brothers-in-law.

This is a medieval setting, they are not going to have the same reverence we have for pets. and Neither parent eve taught him it was wrong. (1)

And even in todays day and age a 5-8 year old child who has tortured an animal is not an automatic danger.

So he knew what his son and heir was and chose to ignore it. He could have tried to be a better father, but clearly the better option was to ignore it. (2) Clearly that makes him the worse parent.(3)

1. Didn't Bob knock his teeth out?

2. That's our Bobby B.

3. That makes him more negligent, but Cersei whispering in his ear was worse.

[Boarsbane]

Sure, because Tywin's own kids are so good at keeping their emotions in check...

They were while he was alive, except Jaime

[House Hendrix of Rock]

Ned just said "no fucking way I already have that Greyjoy, and you should at least be able to take care of your legit kids Bob"

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

To which Bob responds, "More Wine!"

[House Hendrix of Rock]

To which Bob responds, "More Wine!"

Lancel ! Lancel!

[Universal Sword Donor]

They were while he was alive, except Jaime

Tell that to Melara

Tywin would be an absolutely *horrible* choice to foster someone like Joffrey.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Tell that to Melara

Tywin would be an absolutely *horrible* choice to foster someone like Joffrey.

We would either get a more normalized Joff or Super Super Evil Joff

[Universal Sword Donor]

We would either get a more normalized Joff or Super Super Evil Joff

Best case scenario, he turns out like pre-hand loss Jaime. Worst case scenario, he's a combo Joff/Cersei. Pre-hand loss Jaime was still willing to push a child out of a window

[Mourn Sigil]

I always find it funny to see Cersei get the entire blame for Joffrey, like none of the adult men in his life had any responsibility to how the heir of the Throne turned out.

• Robert was as much to blame for his upbringing.

Jaime had nothing to do with his nephew/son

Renly was actively trying to get Robert a new wife so he could have more power in a Tyrell court rather than a Lannister one. Even though he thought Joffrey was his legitimate nephew, he tried to usurp him.

Tyrion; the first we see of the two of them together is Tyrion slapping his 12 year old nephew. It was an antagonistic relationship which the adult is more to blame than the child.

Stannis is Stannis.

Arryn; did a pretty crappy job of raising Robert so its no suprise he failed the heir of the Kingdom.

Ned was so focused on trying to find dirt on the Lannisters, a family he despised before Bran fell, that he ignored the 12 year old who was betrothed to his daughter. Had he spent more time with his future son in law rather than playing detective everyone would be much better off.

Joffrey during the first half of AGOT is just a spoilt, petulant, mean 12 year old child. Then his father dies, his Uncles raise armies to kill him and Ned is calling him and his siblings bastards, which more than likely ends with their execution. Of course he flipped in that situation.

^This! I have no love for Cersei or Joffrey, but I have always found it irritating that Robert and Jaime rarely, if ever, are criticized for their failure to parent their offspring.

I'm sure that being the product of twincest and the grandson of a pair of first cousins played some role in Joffrey's personality, but nurture definitely had a hand in it as well.

Yes, the cat incident is disturbing, but Robert's response could hardly be described as reasonable. Hitting a child in the face so hard that teeth are knocked out? This from a man who smiled when he was presented with the butchered bodies of Rhaenys and Aegon and did absolutely nothing to the butchers. He doesn't seem to have been terribly involved with Myrcella and Tommen.

Other than briefly doting over Mya Stone before the rebellion and considering bringing her to court, he pays her little mind. Mya's quip about men and mountains speaks volumes.

Edric Storm is fostered by Renly and raised by Cortnay Penrose. *pause for moment of silence* Sure Robert acknowledges him on account of his mother being a Florent, but he doesn't do anything for the boy beyond that. Its Varys who sends him gifts - and Robert laughs when reading the thank-you letters and asks the Spider what he sent.

He didn't seem to be aware of Barra or the twins a Casterly Rock, and certainly wasn't any good for Bella or Gendry. Gendry's apprenticeship is thanks to Varys. The Spider and his little birds know more about Robert's children than he does. Robert was an abject failure as a father.

While there was no way Jaime could acknowledge Joff, Myrcella, and Tommen openly, he still could have displayed affection under the guise of being their uncle. Instead he remains a self absorbed prick and only recently seems to have taken an interest in having involvement with Tommen.

It's actually more surprising that Myrcella and Tommen turned out as well as they have all things considered.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Nah.

Should've been warded at The Dreadfort.

That would've made him shape up but good. :devil:

[Boarsbane]

Nah.

Should've been warded at The Dreadfort.

That would've made him shape up but good. :devil:

Well Roose might of been able to teach him how to hide stuff better, he did a seemingly poor job with Ramsay

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Added bonus: we the reader would know all the words that rhyme with "prince"