TheLastStark Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Does (f)Aegon possess a certain sword, of Valyrian Steel? Blackfyre, itself, would settle a lot. No it wouldn't, it would add fuel to the people who believe that Aegon is fake, but just having a sword doesn't make you a member from a certain house. Illyn Pain had Ice, was he a Stark? Although it would be fitting for Aegon to have Blackfyre either way. If he is a legit Targaryen then he would have the sword that Aegon the conquer used in his conquest, and if he is a Blackfyre then he would of have the sword that started his house and the rebellions that followed, and be conquering Westeros just like Daeron Blackfyre wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 To the Blackfyres and their supporters, the blood is very much not the same. They did not found multiple rebellions on ambivalence. The point of the hypotheticals was not to suggest anything approaching likely scenarios, just to point out that the common defenses against the Blackfyre involvement (the blood does not matter, etc.) raise more questions than they answer (and even to those hypotheticals, your posposed distinction offers no difference...under any scenario, it would be the losing side whose supporters would lose lands to the returning lords of the Golden Company). If the Blackfyres were perfectly willing to support a Targaryen once the last male Blackfyre died, that has been true since Maelys died. So why now? If they were waiting for a Targaryen claimant who "needed" them in order to justify restoration of their lands, well Aerys could have used them, and Viserys begged them for help only to be laughed at. If the Golden Company cared about Targaryen blood, letting Viserys and Dany wander the Free Cities penniless is an odd way to demonstrate loyalty. They probably laughed at Viserys because he was a pompous little shit. Plus the whole time Viserys was in the Free Cities Varys and Illyrio had Aegon in their backpocket and he was the main plan not Viserys. And it seems as if Illyrio has a lot of pull(or he just runs them) with the GC. If Viserys had been the main plan then he most likely would've gotten them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Does (f)Aegon possess a certain sword, of Valyrian Steel? Blackfyre, itself, would settle a lot.Not yet... "Good fortune," Illyrio called after them. "Tell the boy I am sorry that I will not be with him for his wedding. I will rejoin you in Westeros. That I swear, by my sweet Serra's hands." Tyrion III, Dance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Not yet...Tyrion III, DanceI think no matter if he is a Targaryen or Blackfyre he will get that sword. What is that quote for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think no matter if he is a Targaryen or Blackfyre he will get that sword. What is that quote for?I think Illyrio will present Aegon with Blackfyre when he greets him in the throne room at the Red Keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think Illyrio will present Aegon with Blackfyre when he greets him in the throne room at the Red Keep. Possible, all though I would think it more fitting that he has it while conquering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Possible, all though I would think it more fitting that he has it while conquering.I think most folks in this forum believe the sword was in the chests Illyrio delivered with Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think most folks in this forum believe the sword was in the chests Illyrio delivered with Tyrion. I forgot about that, that would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 It makes more sense to think that Serra is the Brightframe than a Blackfyre since she is from Lys.Illyrio could very well be a Blackfyre through his mother but if we follow the Henry VIII parallel Serra and Varys are Blackfyres but i dont think it could be said that the Blackfyre male line is extinct as long as Varys lives. Blackfyres also stayed in Lys, and Varys is from there. Varys lost his manhood, and Theon did and bot him and Ramsay say he isn't even a man. Varys can't procreate for House Blackfyre. It makes more sense historically speaking, for Aegon to have a Blackfyre mother given his strong Henry VII parallel. The Brightflame angle is a bit convoluted for my taste. Even though I love historical parallels, I should know, I've made 4 threads on them; I think this could make sense: Six cherry trees could mean six Blackfyre Rebellions with Aegon being the sixth. Agreed. What do you think Varys and Illyrio will do if/when fAegon is toast? Try to kill off Dany to avenge him. Five of them are confirmed absolutely but there is this info that the Yronwoods rode with Bittersteel three times. I think the first rebellion cannot be counted as “riding with Bittersteel” because Daemon was the figurehead of the first campaign. It would be more proper to call that “riding with Daemon” for the First Rebellion. Therefore, there is a room for the sixth. 196 AC - 1st Rebellion: Daemon I vs. Daeron II 212 AC - 2nd Rebellion: Daemon II vs. Aerys I (No BS) 2?? AC - 3rd Rebellion: Haegon I (most probably) vs. Maekar (BS + Yronwood #1) 236 AC - 4th Rebellion: Daemon III vs. Egg (BS + Yronwood #2) 2?? AC - 5th Rebellion: ? vs. Egg (BS + Yronwood #3) 261 AC - 6th Rebellion: Maelys vs. Jaehaerys II (Wot9PK - No BS) 300 AC - 7th Rebellion: fAegon vs. Dany BTW, historical parallels are not perfect :) There is no Blackfyre Rebellion mentioned in between the Wo9PK and the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion. I think six would fit better given it is the number associated with the devil, and Varys and Illyrio have had a few devil references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 As far as I know the Blackfyres never lived in Lys. They were based in Tyrosh, that's all we know. And Aegon won't be another Blackfyre pretender. He is a Targaryen, remember? If he is not Rhaegar's son, and if this is conclusively proven, his rule will be at an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 As far as I know the Blackfyres never lived in Lys. They were based in Tyrosh, that's all we know. And Aegon won't be another Blackfyre pretender. He is a Targaryen, remember? If he is not Rhaegar's son, and if this is conclusively proven, his rule will be at an end. He isn't a Targaryen, and he eventually will be found to have been a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Perhaps, but he will never be a Blackfyre pretender. No one will ever say that he has a better claim because he is descended from Daemon Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegal Targaryen Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He isn't a Targaryen, and he eventually will be found to have been a fake. I dont remember the Blackfyres ever living in;>Lys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I dont remember the Blackfyres ever living in;>Lys...They didn't, but the Brightflames did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegal Targaryen Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 They didn't, but the Brightflames did. That s what i was saying to Fire Eater,the Blackfyres didn t,the Brightfyres cough cough Varys and Serra did.Illyrio is most likely the Blackfyre from the female line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He isn't a Targaryen, and he eventually will be found to have been a fake. He is a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegal Targaryen Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He is a Targaryen. Blackfyres and Brightframes are Targaryens so you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Aerion did live in Lys for a short while. There are no Brightflames we know of, and Aerion's legitimate son (b. in 232) would have no connection to Lys whatsoever. He would have had no reason to go there, and only he would have a sort of claim to the Iron Throne. The thought that speculative bastards born to Aerion by Lysene whores would have any meaning for him whatsoever is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Blackfyres and Brightframes are Targaryens so you are right. Yes, in any case he's a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 That s what i was saying to Fire Eater,the Blackfyres didn t,the Brightfyres cough cough Varys and Serra did.Illyrio is most likely the Blackfyre from the female line.Since I read Paper Weaver's thread, I think that Varys and Serra are Brightflames and Illyrio is the Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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