Malazan II

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Ok that does sound framiliar, is that related to what happened to Whiskeyjack's sister at all?

Hmmmm, might be, I never connected those two together before. Man, its really hard to go back in your mind and remember these little details. Such a huge story. You could be right, and I'm sure someone here knows if they were connected.

[Ghjhero]

Hmmmm, might be, I never connected those two together before. Man, its really hard to go back in your mind and remember these little details. Such a huge story. You could be right, and I'm sure someone here knows if they were connected.

Yeah i have a hard enough time remembering what happened to a single character from book to book. Im still not seeing an obvious problem with the timeline though, should it have happened by now?

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Yeah i have a hard enough time remembering what happened to a single character from book to book. Im still not seeing an obvious problem with the timeline though, should it have happened by now?

No, when it comes to Dassem, what happened with the girl, happened prior to the books. A backstory, I believe a few different characters throughout the series bring it up a time or two.

[Ghjhero]

No, when it comes to Dassem, what happened with the girl, happened prior to the books. A backstory, I believe a few different characters throughout the series bring it up a time or two.

I meant just the overall timeline. Supposedly SE screws it up big time, but i havnt found any evidence of that so far.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I meant just the overall timeline. Supposedly SE screws it up big time, but i havnt found any evidence of that so far.

Sorry, guess I wasn't paying attention.

Harllo. They say it isn't possible for him to be 5 years olds, considering when other events have taken place. I guess its not really a big deal, unless you are really worried about the timeline. Wertzone has a good reading order that explains the little discrepancies. Though, IMHO I don't see where they are huge problems. ;)

[Gormenghast]

Yeah i have a hard enough time remembering what happened to a single character from book to book. Im still not seeing an obvious problem with the timeline though, should it have happened by now?

A bit in book 4 onward, so yeah. It should have happened and stopped, since I'm not aware of inconsistencies past book 8.

They are mostly between early Malazan phase book 1-3 and the rest.

[Ghjhero]

Sorry, guess I wasn't paying attention.

Harllo. They say it isn't possible for him to be 5 years olds, considering when other events have taken place. I guess its not really a big deal, unless you are really worried about the timeline. Wertzone has a good reading order that explains the little discrepancies. Though, IMHO I don't see where they are huge problems. ;)

Oh ok thanks. I thought it would be a lot bigger deal than that. I dont really care about the age of a minor character that I care nothing about.

[The Reckoner]

In Lees of Laughter's End, the god from the sea, is that

Kilmandaros?

[DJDonegal]

Just a few chapters into MoI but DG kicked the pants of GotM which was a real struggle to get through for me. I nearly gave up on the series there because knowing there's 10 books ahead of you makes you question giving it the commitment it needs!

And that's 10 serious tomes.

[Ghjhero]

I have about 250 pges left to go in TtH, i dont see where all the complaints of it being the worst book come from. Its no worse or better than most of the series. My favorite part has been the Darujhistan storyline, the Nimander and Co part has been steadily getting better, and the Black Coral part has put me to sleep most of the time. But a major complaint i do have is that the book would have been much better with a harsher editor. Ive gotten to the point that anytime i come across anything remotely philosophical i start skimming the page. Thee book could easily be a hundred pages shorter at least.

[The Reckoner]

Interesting. My favorite sections of TtH were in Black Coral. Daru was pretty good too.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I have about 250 pges left to go in TtH, i dont see where all the complaints of it being the worst book come from. Its no worse or better than most of the series. My favorite part has been the Darujhistan storyline, the Nimander and Co part has been steadily getting better, and the Black Coral part has put me to sleep most of the time. But a major complaint i do have is that the book would have been much better with a harsher editor. Ive gotten to the point that anytime i come across anything remotely philosophical i start skimming the page. Thee book could easily be a hundred pages shorter at least.

I love any part of the series that takes part in Darujhistan.;) I really come to somewhat like, or at least respect Kallor during this book.

[Ghjhero]

I finished TtH. I have no idea why so many people complain about it, it had a great cast of characters and a lot of intriguing moments. The overall ending was one of the best for the series without question, but some questions still remain for me such as;

what Rake's overall plan was as to why he killed Hood and then what he did once he himself entered Draginpur. And im still hazy as to Dassem's wish to kill Hood and why he wasnted to kill him. I also dont understand why Rake fought Dassem if Hood was already dead, what was he stopping Dassem from doing?

[The Reckoner]

Try the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novellas. You might prefer those to the main series if you like Erikson's prose.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I finished TtH. I have no idea why so many people complain about it, it had a great cast of characters and a lot of intriguing moments. The overall ending was one of the best for the series without question, but some questions still remain for me such as;

what Rake's overall plan was as to why he killed Hood and then what he did once he himself entered Draginpur. And im still hazy as to Dassem's wish to kill Hood and why he wasnted to kill him. I also dont understand why Rake fought Dassem if Hood was already dead, what was he stopping Dassem from doing?

Dassem wanted to kill hood, because hood killed his daughter for forsaking his vows to hood. Dassem was forced to fight Rake because Rake denied Dassem his vengeance against Hood. Rake allowed himself to be killed BG Dranginpur so he could go inside of it and enact his plan.

[Wilbur]

I finished TtH. I have no idea why so many people complain about it, it had a great cast of characters and a lot of intriguing moments. The overall ending was one of the best for the series without question, but some questions still remain for me such as;

what Rake's overall plan was as to why he killed Hood and then what he did once he himself entered Draginpur. And im still hazy as to Dassem's wish to kill Hood and why he wasnted to kill him. I also dont understand why Rake fought Dassem if Hood was already dead, what was he stopping Dassem from doing?

Hood and Rake have a plan, the result of which DoD and TCG will more fully reveal.

Earlier books had hints of this agreement, although I did not spot them until they were pointed out to me by the other re-readers on the Tor.com re-read forum for TMBOTF.

From

TTH, however, I gather that part of this plan includes allowing Apsal'ara and Draconus to escape Dragnipur, as well as permitting the Gate of Dark to return to Wu and to Mother Dark so that she could manifest again, as well as allowing Calladan Brood to destroy Dragnipur. You may recall that Draconus had begun to realize that the effort to control Chaos through Dragnipur wasn't working, and was actually now endangering the universe - Rake and Hood are revealed to know this as well in TTH.

Dassem believed that Hood had arbitrarily killed Dassem's daughter,

although that may be a misinterpretation, based upon what happens in

DoD and TCG.

It is this belief and Dassem's actions as a result of it that makes him Lord of Tragedy.

Some references to review that helped me better understand that whole set of circumstances include the following.

From TTH:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/06/malazan-re-read-of-the-fallen-toll-the-hounds-chapter-thirteen-part-one

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/08/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen-toll-the-hounds-chapter-twenty-four-part-one

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/08/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen-toll-the-hounds-book-wrap

and from DoD:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/04/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen-dust-of-dreams-chapter-nineteen-part-one

[Ghjhero]

Dassem wanted to kill hood, because hood killed his daughter for forsaking his vows to hood. Dassem was forced to fight Rake because Rake denied Dassem his vengeance against Hood. Rake allowed himself to be killed BG Dranginpur so he could go inside of it and enact his plan.

Hood and Rake have a plan, the result of which DoD and TCG will more fully reveal.

Earlier books had hints of this agreement, although I did not spot them until they were pointed out to me by the other re-readers on the Tor.com re-read forum for TMBOTF.

From

TTH, however, I gather that part of this plan includes allowing Apsal'ara and Draconus to escape Dragnipur, as well as permitting the Gate of Dark to return to Wu and to Mother Dark so that she could manifest again, as well as allowing Calladan Brood to destroy Dragnipur. You may recall that Draconus had begun to realize that the effort to control Chaos through Dragnipur wasn't working, and was actually now endangering the universe - Rake and Hood are revealed to know this as well in TTH.

Dassem believed that Hood had arbitrarily killed Dassem's daughter,

although that may be a misinterpretation, based upon what happens in

DoD and TCG.

It is this belief and Dassem's actions as a result of it that makes him Lord of Tragedy.

Some references to review that helped me better understand that whole set of circumstances include the following.

From TTH:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/06/malazan-re-read-of-the-fallen-toll-the-hounds-chapter-thirteen-part-one

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/08/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen-toll-the-hounds-chapter-twenty-four-part-one

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/08/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen-toll-the-hounds-book-wrap

and from DoD:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/04/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen-dust-of-dreams-chapter-nineteen-part-one

Ok guys thanks that makes more sense now, does that also mean,

everyone else who was in Draginpur such as Hood and Rake have been returned to the mortal realm with the destruction of the sword? I also was slightly dissapointed when upon reading the list of characters in DoD that no one from 7 Cities such as Paran or from Genabackis were listed. I had hoped that all of the plots would have finally started to merge by now.

I was also thinking of some other unfinished plot points that were brought up in earlier books, but were never followed up on. The two that come to mind are; Karsa releasing the imprisoned Forkrul Assail at the start of HoC and what happened to her. And in tBH when Quick Ben and Kalam were in the Imperial Warren and saw the fleet of sky keeps, but they were never explained either.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Ok guys thanks that makes more sense now, does that also mean,

everyone else who was in Draginpur such as Hood and Rake have been returned to the mortal realm with the destruction of the sword? I also was slightly dissapointed when upon reading the list of characters in DoD that no one from 7 Cities such as Paran or from Genabackis were listed. I had hoped that all of the plots would have finally started to merge by now.

I was also thinking of some other unfinished plot points that were brought up in earlier books, but were never followed up on. The two that come to mind are; Karsa releasing the imprisoned Forkrul Assail at the start of HoC and what happened to her. And in tBH when Quick Ben and Kalam were in the Imperial Warren and saw the fleet of sky keeps, but they were never explained either.

Read on....it'll all make sense, for the most part.

[Ghjhero]

Read on....it'll all make sense, for the most part.

Haha ok thanks, DoD here i come!

[Wilbur]

Ok guys thanks that makes more sense now, does that also mean,

everyone else who was in Draginpur such as Hood and Rake have been returned to the mortal realm with the destruction of the sword? I also was slightly dissapointed when upon reading the list of characters in DoD that no one from 7 Cities such as Paran or from Genabackis were listed. I had hoped that all of the plots would have finally started to merge by now.

I was also thinking of some other unfinished plot points that were brought up in earlier books, but were never followed up on. The two that come to mind are; Karsa releasing the imprisoned Forkrul Assail at the start of HoC and what happened to her. And in tBH when Quick Ben and Kalam were in the Imperial Warren and saw the fleet of sky keeps, but they were never explained either.

I think that DoD is one of the books where characters appear that are not listed in the Dramatis Personae. In any case, DoD and TCG are actually one big story broken into two books, and the conclusion ties up just about every single plot thread, including those you mention, so your appetite for certain characters and questions will most probably be sated before The Big Finish.

As you go into DoD, keep in mind, first, that the Jaghut magic in Lether (and other places covered in the ICE books) has disrupted the normal effects of death, and that, second, the inhabitants of Dragnipur are sort of "captured souls forced to pull the big black wagon ahead of Chaos", rather than having crossed over into death's realm.

Also, (and this isn't something that is overtly stated that I recall until the last couple of books,) the Jaghut had fought a War on Death under the leadership of Hood. Apparently as a result of this war, Hood became the God of Death and of The Dead.

The War on Death discussions from TTH:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/06/malazan-re-read-of-the-fallen-toll-the-hounds-chapter-sixteen

and

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/06/steven-erikson-answers-your-dust-of-dreams-questions

Like you, the sky keeps that Quick Ben sees in the Imperial warren were a big Chekhov's Gun for me. Let's just say that the outcome was not what I expected. At all. Then again, so many other things that I thought were Big Signposts For Future Storylines turned out to be just incidental, as TMBOTF always managed to turn in an unexpected direction for me.

Also, Clip: what an ass of a character.