Stop apologising for Renly

[Salafi Stannis]

He died by diabolus ex machina, not by his own incompetence.

Stannis clearly states he intends to slay Renly in the ACoK Prologue. Cressen, the one man who ever loved Stannis, thinks he would go through it.

Stop trying to shift the blame, Stannis is as responsible as Mel in this.

And Renly would have killed Stannis, soo what's your point?

[Winter's Knight]

He didn't "wipe his ass" with Robert's decree, he complained about it a lot, but he obeyed it. He only took Storm's End after he killed Renly.

:D

[Salafi Stannis]

Doesnt matter. Dies first so worst. I wanna say ipso facto but drunk and dont remeber latin

Ipso facto = By that very fact or act.

[Game Of Thrones]

Stannis clearly states he intends to slay Renly in the ACoK Prologue. Cressen, the one man who ever loved Stannis, thinks he would go through it.

Stop trying to shift the blame, Stannis is as responsible as Mel in this.

Stannis intended to kill Renly in a battle, not with a shadow baby.

[Salafi Stannis]

:D

Great, so you changed my quote to say "after he killed Renly" instead of "after Renly died", what's your point? He did kill Renly, they were at war! Renly was a rebel and a traitor and even said he was planning on killing Stannis!

[Malik Ambar]

Dog eat dog people, deal with it.

[Sullen]

And Renly would have killed Stannis, soo what's your point?

My point is that people should stop whitewashing a character and robbing him of what makes him an interesting read.

Stannis intended to kill Renly in a battle, not with a shadow baby.

You seriously believe Stannis thought his measly force could have taken on Renly's better trained, better equipped, better organized, and more numerous host? If so, then I must say, you have a pretty low opinion of Stannis.

[Game Of Thrones]

You seriously believe Stannis thought his measly force could have taken on Renly's better trained, better equipped, better organized, and more numerous host? If so, then I must say, you have a pretty low opinion of Stannis.

Yes, because Mel saw it in her fires. And everything indicates that Stannis was preparing for battle, not an assassination.

And also, Agincourt, Crécy. Numbers aren't everything, and Stannis knows it.

[Salafi Stannis]

Proof that people have too high an opinion of Renly: Some diehard Renly fan just thought that this is a joke thread, just because it criticises their precious Renly. This is a post from another thread.

Posted 36 minutes ago

FerociousVeldtRoarer, on 29 Aug 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

I think that's what he did. He's bored and spewing those joke threads one after another. I personally don't get the joke, but to each his own, I guess.

As you can see, the link on the word "one" is a link to a joke thread of mine, and the link on the word "another" is a link to this thread. How can you think so high of Renly that you believe any attack on him is a joke?

[Sullen]

Yes, because Mel saw it in her fires. And everything indicates that Stannis was preparing for battle, not an assassination.

And also, Agincourt, Crécy. Numbers aren't everything, and Stannis knows it.

So he just blindly followed Mel? That doesn't seem like something a smart man would do.

As for Agincourt, I almost wrote "Inb4Agincourt comparison" but thought that would be too much, guess I was wrong though. Agincourt and the siege of Storm's End are in no way comparable. Stannis doesn't have an equivalent to the English Longbowman, and the environment doesn't work in favour of Stannis the same way Agincourt's muddy fields worked in favour of the Englishmen.

Renly didn't only have the advantage in numbers, he had better leadership, mobility, equipment, and had Stannis sandwiched between his large host and Storm's End as well. Had Mel not intervened, Stannis would have been curbstomped.

[Game Of Thrones]

As you can see, the link on the word "one" is a link to a joke thread of mine, and the link on the word "another" is a link to this thread. How can you think so high of Renly that you believe any attack on him is a joke?

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[HexMachina]

Proof that people have too high an opinion of Renly: Some diehard Renly fan just thought that this is a joke thread, just because it criticises their precious Renly. This is a post from another thread.

Posted 36 minutes ago

FerociousVeldtRoarer, on 29 Aug 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

As you can see, the link on the word "one" is a link to a joke thread of mine, and the link on the word "another" is a link to this thread. How can you think so high of Renly that you believe any attack on him is a joke?

So the words of one person count for all of us?

Ok then.

[Game Of Thrones]

So he just blindly followed Mel? That doesn't seem like something a smart man would do.

Yes, he followed the person who can see the future, since he had no other good plans. What's wrong with that?

[Sullen]

Proof that people have too high an opinion of Renly: Some diehard Renly fan just thought that this is a joke thread, just because it criticises their precious Renly. This is a post from another thread.

You assume anyone that disagrees with you must be a Renly fan and only disagree out of preference, while that is simply not the case.

Personally speaking, Stannis stands in my favourite characters while Renly doesn't. Stannis is simply more complex and interesting to read about, though that might not have been the case had Renly been allowed to be fleshed out more as a character.

Renly was simply in the right, and essentially had the whole war figured out and won for him. I'm not saying that because I especially like Renly, I'm just saying that because I am not blinded by admiration for Stannis.

[Sullen]

Yes, he followed the person who can see the future, since he had no other good plans. What's wrong with that?

Not just followed, blindly followed, according to you. There's a considerable difference between the two.

You say he had no idea of how Renly would die, that means he jumped in all of this not knowing what to expect, that's a rather stupid thing to do, and Stannis is not a stupid man. He very well knew how Renly would die if you ask me.

[Talleyrand]

Yes, because Mel saw it in her fires. And everything indicates that Stannis was preparing for battle, not an assassination.

And also, Agincourt, Crécy. Numbers aren't everything, and Stannis knows it.

Sullen Sellsword covered Agincourt i'll take Crecy - Stannis doesn't have the longbowmen, he doesn't have a nice hill, he doesn't have Renly sending crossbowmen forwards without protection or charging over said crossbowmen.

To make such comparisons to Agincourt or Crecy ignores just how these battles were so shocking and just why they won - rather than simply being, look smaller armies win!

[Salafi Stannis]

You assume anyone that disagrees with you must be a Renly fan and only disagree out of preference, while that is simply not the case.

Personally speaking, Stannis stands in my favourite characters while Renly doesn't. Stannis is simply more complex and interesting to read about, though that might not have been the case had Renly been allowed to be fleshed out more as a character.

Renly was simply in the right, and essentially had the whole war figured out and won for him. I'm not saying that because I especially like Renly, I'm just saying that because I am not blinded by admiration for Stannis.

How was Renly in the right? If he knew about incest, he should have supported Stannis, if he didn't he should have either not rebelled or, if you insist on giving him a free pass for that one, there is no excuse for him trying to take the throne himself and not supporting Tommen. Btw, GRRM himself said Stannis is a righteous man, just saying.

[Trigger Warning]

He didn't want Cersei to send boars and or squirrels after him.

[Trigger Warning]

He left Eddard and his men to get slaughtered

That's Ned's fault not Renly's.

Oh Ned's being a dumb fuck, better die with him.

[Sullen]

How was Renly in the right? If he knew about incest, he should have supported Stannis, if he didn't he should have either not rebelled or, if you insist on giving him a free pass for that one, there is no excuse for him trying to take the throne himself and not supporting Tommen. Btw, GRRM himself said Stannis is a righteous man, just saying.

Because, as has been pointed out many times in many threads, Tommen might not feel especially grateful to the uncle who killed his mother, his brother (a bit less so), and a good part of his family. Giving so much power to someone who might later hold a grudge against you is not a smart thing to do. Tommen being King also complicates the negotiations with the Tyrells as they cannot tie the knot and solidify the alliance when they need it the most, during the War. Everything would hinge on a promise.

As for what George said, I have no doubt Stannis actually thinks he is in the right, and that all of his actions are justified in some way. He is not always in the right though, and highly differs from the ultra-moral, ultra-manly, overcompetent messiah his most vocal fans seem to paint him as.