The Novella Portents [Spoilers for everything]

[ArgilactheArrogant]

Would someone be able to please link to the thread about how the novella's relate to potential suitors for Sansa? I've never seen that theory, and the search function hasn't produced the right results.

Thanks!

In aDwD JonCon says that House Frey has been long reknown for treachery and in the Mystery Knight we find out the Freys betrayed the Blackfyre supporters to Bloodraven.

Also, I saw a theory about the Ghost of High Heart being a descendant of the kid Alys Rivers had with Aemond Targaryen, which is cool

And yeah, the Sansa's suitors thingy

[Good Guy Garlan]

Would someone be able to please link to the thread about how the novella's relate to potential suitors for Sansa? I've never seen that theory, and the search function hasn't produced the right results.

Thanks!

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102851-the-tourney-at-ashford-and-sansas-suitors/

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Sure, but all three made it out of the city alive, which is better than you can say for Elia and her children. While a properly executed baby switch might offer better long term survival prospects for Aegon, it also undermines the supposed long term goal of placing him on the IT, because of the dubious 'chain of custody' involved.

Also, it seems to me that Varys could have swapped babies and still smuggled Elia, Rhaenys, and the Aegon-double out of the city, while planning to send the real Aegon across the Narrow Sea. It seems rather short sighted of the almost infinitely clever Varys to overlook the importance of Elia and also Rhaenys in establishing Aegon's identity and supporting his claim.

When Varys shows up telling you he made a secret deal with a dead person, you can take him at his word if you like, but I won't. :)

He could have left a fake baby and took Elia and Rhaenys, but perhaps he thought the women (read: Elia) had a good chance of survival. Had they ran, they would never be at rest. Robert wasn't going to stand a child of Rhaegar surviving. With Rhaenys (and seemingly Aegon) dead, plans could be made in secret. Perhaps Elia's death was one of those unforeseen events, I don't know.

I don't believe everything Varys says, but I do think that every now and then,there is truth there. But I think the chance for Aegon being real are still rather good. That said, it would also add another layer of irony.. Rhaegars son "back from the death". O so wonderful.. and then he dies within a year. If I have to guess, it will be Dany who kills him (she who wanted to know more of her family, killing one of the last few family members she has left).

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

No I doubt its a spoiler.

The novellas aren't meant to tell us what is going to happen, most of the subversions of the first dance have already been done in the Wot5K, Rhaenyra via Stannis and Alicent via Cersei, for example.

So I doubt TPATQ is a hint for any other future wars in the series.

\\however I do believe the novellas can serve as tool for identifying symbols and motif but not for "foreshadowing".

[bemused]

Here's a possible fun one that might mean something later.. ( I don't have the D&E stories in ebook form so if anyone wants to pull up the relevant quote, thanks in advance..)

In TMK Dunk has a bit of a problem identifying the king on a golden dragon. At first he thinks it's Daeron , but it doesn't look like him - then he realises one of the letters in the name is wrong. It says Daemon , who had minted his own coins when he rose in rebellion.

Now we go to "The Blind Girl " in ADWD. First we read..

One man had died at the feet of the Stranger, a single candle flickering above him. She could feel its heat, and the scent that it gave off tickled her nose. The candle burned with a dark red flame, she knew; for those with eyes, the corpse would have seemed awash in a ruddy glow. Before summoning the serving men to carry him away, she knelt and felt his face, tracing the line of his jaw, brushing her fingers across his cheeks and nose, touching his hair. Curly hair, and thick. A handsome face, unlined. He was young. She wondered what had brought him here to seek the gift of death. Dying bravos oft found their way to the House of Black and White, to hasten their ends, but this man had no wounds that she could find.

Then a bit later... Telling one coin from another by touch alone was one of the first things the waif had taught her, after they took away her eyes....and...

On the handsome man she found four golden dragons out of Westeros. She was running the ball of her thumb across the most worn of them, trying to decide which king it showed, when she heard the door opening softly behind her.

So has Arya found a Blackfyre ? Everything is black to her but she knows by scent that the candle burns with a dark red flame and he would appear red himself. ... She can't decide which king the coin shows but it's probably the oldest as it's the most worn, and it may also serve as a talisman ( or ID) and be handled a lot.. I wonder if he'll be mentioned again... or if someone will wear his face.

[J. Stargaryen]

He could have left a fake baby and took Elia and Rhaenys, but perhaps he thought the women (read: Elia) had a good chance of survival. Had they ran, they would never be at rest. Robert wasn't going to stand a child of Rhaegar surviving. With Rhaenys (and seemingly Aegon) dead, plans could be made in secret. Perhaps Elia's death was one of those unforeseen events, I don't know.

If that's true, you have nothing to lose by making a run for it.

I don't believe everything Varys says, but I do think that every now and then,there is truth there. But I think the chance for Aegon being real are still rather good. That said, it would also add another layer of irony.. Rhaegars son "back from the death". O so wonderful.. and then he dies within a year. If I have to guess, it will be Dany who kills him (she who wanted to know more of her family, killing one of the last few family members she has left).

Of course not. :) I just meant that it's a fishy story to begin with. On top of that, it's being told by arguably the biggest and best liar in the series.

[Poppa Chase]

If that's true, you have nothing to lose by making a run for it.

Of course not. :) I just meant that it's a fishy story to begin with. On top of that, it's being told by arguably the biggest and best liar in the series.

Show me an example of Varys lying.

[J. Stargaryen]

Show me an example of Varys lying.

Either way with Aegon/fAegon. It's a lie of omission if he's real, or a lie of commission if he's not.

[Poppa Chase]

Either way with Aegon/fAegon. It's a lie of omission if he's real, or a lie of commission if he's not.

Varys is more like about half truths so to me either way is plausible. He could be lying about the whole thing to a dying man so that his little birds will run off and spread the rumor. Or he could be telling his hidden plan to a man who he believed didn't deserve to die like he did. Everytime we've heard a word from Varys it has been the truth with layers. Then again, these are to people who could kill him at any moment. To a dying man he may simply lie to his face, or he may simply give the whole truth and nothing but.

We need Winds of Winter.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Varys is more like about half truths so to me either way is plausible. He could be lying about the whole thing to a dying man so that his little birds will run off and spread the rumor. Or he could be telling his hidden plan to a man who he believed didn't deserve to die like he did. Everytime we've heard a word from Varys it has been the truth with layers. Then again, these are to people who could kill him at any moment. To a dying man he may simply lie to his face, or he may simply give the whole truth and nothing but.

We need Winds of Winter.

I can give you a very similar example to the situation where he lied to Kevin. Varys tells Kevin that "Aegon is here", he implies that it is the son of Rhaegar but he never actually says so. People who like to think Aegon is real say that it is clear who Varys is talking about, but Ned thought so too. In AGOT Varys does not specifically lie to Ned about who poisoned Jon Aryn, but he makes his statement about someone who Jon Aryn brought here and gave everything, and then lets Ned run with the idea of his squire rather than saying "O, actually I meant LF"

Its a very similar convo, and both men Varys spoke to wound up dead.

[Sword of the Morgan]

They also provide backstory on the Targaryen dynasty, succession, and dragonlore. :)

Yeah, I really enjoyed that.