Jon Snow and Aragorn similarities

[Arya's a boss]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I wanted to start a new thread to hear you guys opinion. As I was evaluating R + L = J ... AGAIN, it struck me that there is quite a bit of similarity between the story of Jon Snow (if R + L = J) to Aragorn in LOTR.

Both would be heirs to the throne although they haven't lived their lives royally but have rather been considered outcasts. On the wall, Jon Snow wants to become a ranger and although he is originally a steward, he does indeed become a ranger when he goes on the mission with Halfhand. Aragorn is also described as a ranger when he is under the identity of Strider.

I also wonder if Jon may one day wield a reforged Ice? Sort of like Anduril forged from the shards of Narsil in LOTR. So both would be the heirs of a house that has been removed from power and both would have their claims to the throne if indeed R + L = J.

I know that GRRM is a fan of Tolkien and LOTR but we also know that he really likes to abandon the common themes and tropes of the genre. There's a lot of evidence for R + L = J, and I'm willing to concede that it is very likely but my question is; is Jon Snow's story too much like Aragorn's? Will he actually be R + L = J? And will he claim the throne? *Bran's dreams of snow in the throne room*

Because it just seems like it would be too perfect. What do you think?

[Edmure's Floppy Fish]

If Jon finds out R+L=me, then both would have learned of their true identify later in life.

I had never seen the symbolism in Bran seeing Snow in the Throne room. I just thought of Winter coming to KL. Such an idiot! (I am about as useful at interpreting foreshadowing in the show as Melissandre is at interpreting visions in the flames!)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Welcome :cheers:

As I have said before: I think that it goes like this for Jon:

All that is gold does not glitter,
Jon is the King but he doen't have the royal "glitter"

Not all those who wander are lost;
Jon has wondered but he will find his way to his home/throne

The old that is strong does not wither,
Jon after all things that have happen to him in his heart is still Ned's son

Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
Although he had many reasons and opportunities Jon's roots (honor, ideals) haven't "wither" from "bad influences"

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
Jon's ressuraction as AAR

A light from the shadows shall spring;
Jon as AAR fighting the Others

Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
LB (I believe that NW is LB) & the Realm

The crownless again shall be king.
Jon

Also:

Black hair grey eyes (yes I think that First Men are Noldor), father died fighting.

Gilraen's; Onen i-estel edain ú-chebin estel anim (I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I have kept none for myself). Should I explain myself for Lyanna?

Both were growing up with their uncles.

Both took a possition to a Northern *army* and ending up to lead them.

[House Hendrix of Rock]

Outcast becoming king -> Superman idea of Western folklore

[Elessar]

When does Bran see snow in the throne room?

Also, I was raised by Elves, so nyah nyah nyah....

[Arya's a boss]

Welcome :cheers:

As I have said before: I think that it goes like this for Jon:

All that is gold does not glitter,

Jon is the King but he doen't have the royal "glitter"

Not all those who wander are lost;

Jon has wondered but he will find his way to his home/throne

The old that is strong does not wither,

Jon after all things that have happen to him in his heart is still Ned's son

Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Although he had many reasons and opportunities Jon's roots (honor, ideals) haven't "wither" from "bad influences"

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,

Jon's ressuraction as AAR

A light from the shadows shall spring;

Jon as AAR fighting the Others

Renewed shall be blade that was broken,

LB (I believe that NW is LB) & the Realm

The crownless again shall be king.

Jon

Also:

Black hair grey eyes (yes I think that First Men is Noldor), father died fighting.

Gilraen's; Onen i-estel edain ú-chebin estel anim (I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I have kept none for myself). Should I explain myself for Lyanna?

Both were growing up with their uncles.

Both took a possition to a Northern *army* and ending up to lead them.

Wow. I was thinking about that poem but didn't write it up and compare. That's amazing!

[Arya's a boss]

Perhaps Bran seeing the snow in the throne room is in the show only? But I was pretty certain that it was in the books as well... I'll have to look it up.

[Edmure's Floppy Fish]

When does Bran see snow in the throne room?

Also, I was raised by Elves, so nyah nyah nyah....

It was in the show. I don't recall it happening in the book.

[Visenya Stark]

Welcome :cheers:

As I have said before: I think that it goes like this for Jon:

All that is gold does not glitter,

Jon is the King but he doen't have the royal "glitter"

Not all those who wander are lost;

Jon has wondered but he will find his way to his home/throne

The old that is strong does not wither,

Jon after all things that have happen to him in his heart is still Ned's son

Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Although he had many reasons and opportunities Jon's roots (honor, ideals) haven't "wither" from "bad influences"

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,

Jon's ressuraction as AAR

A light from the shadows shall spring;

Jon as AAR fighting the Others

Renewed shall be blade that was broken,

LB (I believe that NW is LB) & the Realm

The crownless again shall be king.

Jon

Also:

Black hair grey eyes (yes I think that First Men is Noldor), father died fighting.

Gilraen's; Onen i-estel edain ú-chebin estel anim (I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I have kept none for myself). Should I explain myself for Lyanna?

Both were growing up with their uncles.

Both took a possition to a Northern *army* and ending up to lead them.

This is brilliant!

[House Volton]

When does Bran see snow in the throne room?

Also, I was raised by Elves, so nyah nyah nyah....

Elrond was Aragorn's uncle 16 (or 31 I don't really remember)generations removed

[Elessar]

Unless he sees it in ADwD (he doesn't)... I am re-reading the series again and haven't come upon the snow in the throne room vision from anyone in the books. It's a show invention.

[shk12344]

Perhaps Bran seeing the snow in the throne room is in the show only? But I was pretty certain that it was in the books as well... I'll have to look it up.

The vision sequence occurred during the time when Dany was visiting the House of Undying. Here's the link. Snow in the throne room start around 2 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7VuGknEfQY

[Har!!!]

Welcome :cheers:

As I have said before: I think that it goes like this for Jon:

All that is gold does not glitter,

Jon is the King but he doen't have the royal "glitter"

Not all those who wander are lost;

Jon has wondered but he will find his way to his home/throne

The old that is strong does not wither,

Jon after all things that have happen to him in his heart is still Ned's son

Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Although he had many reasons and opportunities Jon's roots (honor, ideals) haven't "wither" from "bad influences"

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,

Jon's ressuraction as AAR

A light from the shadows shall spring;

Jon as AAR fighting the Others

Renewed shall be blade that was broken,

LB (I believe that NW is LB) & the Realm

The crownless again shall be king.

Jon

Also:

Black hair grey eyes (yes I think that First Men is Noldor), father died fighting.

Gilraen's; Onen i-estel edain ú-chebin estel anim (I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I have kept none for myself). Should I explain myself for Lyanna?

Both were growing up with their uncles.

Both took a possition to a Northern *army* and ending up to lead them.

My favorite part of this is the Noldor comparison. Very well executed. I don't necessarily agree with all of these, but I can't wait to see the truths!

[Fire Eater]

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the Dúnedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her Dúnedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.

The Elendils left Numenor, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the island was swallowed by the sea, and kept what would be the last line of White Trees, a mystical tree from Numenor and the island's signature tree that became the sigil of House Elendil, the kings of Gondor.

The Targaryens left Valyria, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the Doom came and much of the peninsula was swallowed by the sea, and kept the last dragons with them, dragons being the signature creatures of Valyria. The dragon would become the sigil of House Targaryen, the kings of Westeros.

ETA: Aragorn led the Rangers of the North while Jon leads the NW, the rangers who patrol the far North.

[Visenya Stark]

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the Dúnedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her Dúnedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.

The Elendils left Numenor, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the island was swallowed by the sea, and kept what would be the last line of White Trees, a mystical tree from Numenor and the island's signature tree that became the sigil of House Elendil, the kings of Gondor.

The Targaryens left Valyria, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the Doom came and much of the peninsula was swallowed by the sea, and kept the last dragons with them, dragons being the signature creatures of Valyria. The dragon would become the sigil of House Targaryen, the kings of Westeros.

Stuff like this is why I joined this forum! :bowdown:

[Arya's a boss]

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the Dúnedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her Dúnedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.

The Elendils left Numenor, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the island was swallowed by the sea, and kept what would be the last line of White Trees, a mystical tree from Numenor and the island's signature tree that became the sigil of House Elendil, the kings of Gondor.

The Targaryens left Valyria, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the Doom came and much of the peninsula was swallowed by the sea, and kept the last dragons with them, dragons being the signature creatures of Valyria. The dragon would become the sigil of House Targaryen, the kings of Westeros.

Exactly! There are so many similarities... So will Jon, like Aragorn finally claim the throne that is rightfully his? Or will GRRM throw in a twist?

[Hand to King Davos]

Exactly! There are so many similarities... So will Jon, like Aragorn finally claim the throne that is rightfully his? Or will GRRM throw in a twist?

First, love your name. Second, I am still torn between Jon refusing the throne because he simply doesn't want it, or him taking the throne because he knows that, like Aragorn, he is the only one who can unite humanity against the forces of evil. I am leaning toward the first, but there is a lot of foreshadowing of the second.

[TheNinjaDC]

I've always seen Jon as GRRM "fixing" Aragon. He has long stated his complaints about the character, but has not said he hated the character as a whole. He finds him, hollow. The he is a good leader, because it is in his blood, always annoyed him.

With Jon, I see GRRM clearing showing Jon's growth as a character, jumping from one teacher to the next. No other character has had so many great leaders to learn from. From Ned, Mormont, Aemon, Benjen, the half hand, Mance, and Stannis. Each of these represent a stepping stone for Jon's education on leadership, and forshadow how he will lead. Whether King or general fighting the others, Jon is being set up to be a pivotal leader in these last two books.

[RockyRagnarok]

Could Jon lead the Other's into battle like Aragorn lead the undead Kings into war in RotK?...Maybe the Other's are loyal to the Starks and can be ruled by Jon as a Night's King reversed...The Dragons and their masters could be the ultimate evil by the end of the series, The high born lords fighting for the Throne just cause the attention to be forced away from the major threats

[ummester]

The vision sequence occurred during the time when Dany was visiting the House of Undying. Here's the link. Snow in the throne room start around 2 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7VuGknEfQY

That could be ash in the throne room, not snow.

Bran's show vision showed the shadow of dragons over Kings Landing, without snow.

Putting them both together seems like the show is suggesting that dragons will destroy Kings Landing and, as the only 3 dragons are Dany's, Dany will destroy kings landing.

Re the op,

the reason Aragorn and Jon Snow have similarities is because they are similar archetypes.