the marsh king Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I was just re-reading ASoS and on page 289 Tyrion and Tywin have a conversation "The Crag is not so far from Tarbeck hall and Castamere," Tyrion pointed out."You would think the Westerlings might have ridden past and seen the lesson there." "Mayhaps they have" Lord Tywin said."They are well aware of Castamere, I promise you." "Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion ?" Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile,he never did but the threat alone was terrible to behold. "The greatest fools are often more clever than the men who laugh at them, He said,and then, "You will marry Sansa Stark,Tyrion. And soon." I knew Tywin was plotting with the Spicers but not so early on, Robb must have only just married Jeyne at this point in the books. It seems like Tywin never even considered the possibility that the Westerlings could have truly changed allegiance to the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 The ting with the Westerlings is that if the truely turned to Robb, they would die. The Crag is deep in the West and unless Robb figures out how to move castles and land Tywin could easily strike to destroy them before any kind of help could be organized, assuming the Westerlings survived the present war and Robb won. So no, the Westerlings would've had to be mad to make a serious betrayal against the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new djinn Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Gawen most of all! Well, it's likely that as soon as Robb took the Crag and married Jeyne, Sybell made sure that Tywin knew that they were on his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toos Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I think that Sybell played it safe. She contacted Tywin, inform him about potion she was giving to Jeyne, etc so if Tywin would win they wouldn't be seen as traitors. But if Robb would win she would just give Jeyne different potion and unless someone would find letters from Tywin she would be safe. I mean if she would be fully on Tywin's side she could probably kill Robb with some poison and make it seem as accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Were the Westerlings planning to betray Robb from the start? Absolutely. Was Jeyne in on it? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyl Stark Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Sybell planned it from the start, however I'm highly doubtful the rest of the Westerlings were in on it and I'm almost certain Jeyne wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Tywin and Sybelle were plotting from the moment Robb came to the Crag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I think Jeyne and Robb were given love potion, a family recipe from Grandma Maggie the Frog (she read Cersei's prophecy). IT was a set up and they knew Robb was coming as they were isolated as the host Stafford Lannister was raising was destroyed and they fled into Casterly Rock and Lannisport. Robb was caught up in a Medeaval Honey Trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the marsh king Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 I think Jeyne and Robb were given love potion, a family recipe from Grandma Maggie the Frog (she read Cersei's prophecy). IT was a set up and they knew Robb was coming as they were isolated as the host Stafford Lannister was raising was destroyed and they fled into Casterly Rock and Lannisport. Robb was caught up in a Medeaval Honey Trap. I always liked the love potion theory, And i think that it may have been just a old family recipe that hasn't really worked in a long time, but since the dragons are back and magic seems to be increasing they got lucky and the potion ended up working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I always liked the love potion theory, And i think that it may have been just a old family recipe that hasn't really worked in a long time, but since the dragons are back and magic seems to be increasing they got lucky and the potion ended up working. It seems the most plausable because what Robb did by marrying Jeyne when he is completley duty and honor bound, spurning the Freys seems so out of his character, he must have been mad. Even the news of his brothers supposed deaths should not have made him piss all over the Frey alliance. He knew well enough from his mother's warnings that the Freys are necessary and not to be discarded. I think it was love potion all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys' kitten Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I always took it for granted that Sybell and her brother knew. Grey Wind didn't like either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNinjaDC Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Westerlings, no. They seem rather loyal to Robb in the end. The Spicers? Yeah, Grey Wind sniffed out their treason a mile away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the one eared cat Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I believed that the parents were part of the conspiracy, but Jeyne wasn't (she always seemed a bit too wet to do any real manipulating to me...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Late Wolf Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 When I was reading and I saw that the Westerlings were getting a pardon early on in AFFC I was certain they had betrayed Robb and had planned to the whole time. You don't pardon the king of the north's queen and her family without that planned betrayal. I would love to figure outthe timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I was just re-reading ASoS and on page 289 Tyrion and Tywin have a conversation "The Crag is not so far from Tarbeck hall and Castamere," Tyrion pointed out. "You would think the Westerlings might have ridden past and seen the lesson there." "Mayhaps they have" Lord Tywin said. "They are well aware of Castamere, I promise you." "Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion ?" Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile, he never did but the threat alone was terrible to behold. "The greatest fools are often more clever than the men who laugh at them, He said, and then, "You will marry Sansa Stark,Tyrion. And soon." I knew Tywin was plotting with the Spicers but not so early on, Robb must have only just married Jeyne at this point in the books. It seems like Tywin never even considered the possibility that the Westerlings could have truly changed allegiance to the Starks. No. They weren't plotting betrayal from the start. They were always loyal to their Liege Lord, Tywin Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 No. They weren't plotting betrayal from the start. They were always loyal to their Liege Lord, Tywin Lannister. You sir, are being facetious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endac Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 You sir, are being facetious. I like big words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Sybell planned it from the start, however I'm highly doubtful the rest of the Westerlings were in on it and I'm almost certain Jeyne wasn't. IDK about Jeyne. A love potion, if such a thing really exist in Planetos is a possibility. Otherwise, it's possible that Jeyne's mother told her to sleep with him and convince him to marry her due honor, but left out the part where she had detailed the plan to Tywin Lannister and let her think she was doing it for her family - and later on she sincerely fell in love. It's very odd. Robb already has her brother hostage, had just killed soldiers Jeyne grew up with and may have sacked her lands. And Jeyne not only tends to his wounds, but she willingly sleeps with him? It smells rotten. Maybe she initially did it to secure her brother's release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 You sir, are being facetious. Not really. The Westerlings are Lannister bannermen. That's the House they owe loyalty too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Whatever were their real plans, no one told sweet Jeyne :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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