Ukraine 14: Nipple beams and tiger fights for all!

[Suttree]

One says Ukraine and possibly rebels used cluster bombs. The other says Ukraine used cluster bombs and leaves out the rebels. So yeah, I'm still not seeing it. Are you saying that BBC included "possibly rebels" makes some huge difference here?

Regardless the report says both sides and both articles reference that. You seem to be barking up the wrong tree frankly.

[snake]

Not at all. There are differences in the reporting. That's plain to anyone who read them and that's what I commented on. That you have trouble grasping that is not my problem frankly.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Per this article the Swedish Navy is prepared to use force in attempting to find what they speculate is a Russian Sub. If they sink a Russian Sub, in Swedish waters, what does Torvarish Putin do?

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/21/world/europe/sweden-russia-submarine-mystery/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Suttree]

Not at all. There are differences in the reporting. That's plain to anyone who read them and that's what I commented on. That you have trouble grasping that is not my problem frankly.

No idea why you are trying so hard here. I mean I get you have a bias on this topic but the headlines are practically identical(you clearly hadn't read the NY Times one when you made post #61). Now you are trying to spin from the headlines to the "reporting".

So the BBC is vague on rebel usage when the report actually says both sides used cluster bombs. Is that your issue? If not explicitly call out whatever it is. As of know you just seem to be dodging.

[snake]

No idea why you are trying to spin so hard here. I mean I get you have an agenda on this topic but the headlines are practically identical(you clearly hadn't read the NY Times one when you made post #61). Now you are trying to spin from the headlines to the "reporting".

So the BBC leaves out the fact that the report actually says both sides used cluster bombs. Is that your issue? If not explicitly call out whatever it is. As of know you just seem to be dodging.

Ain't spinning nuthin son. I only commented on how the headlines differed. That you have a problem with that is weird. But whatever floats ya boat. Now have some tea and relax. You'll feel better. :)

[Suttree]

Ain't spinning nuthin son.

All good yo. We know your steez. It's beyond odd that you are trying so hard to dodge here. If you don't want to back your point that's on you though. *shrug*

I only commented on how the headlines differed.

"Ukraine Used Cluster Bombs, Evidence Indicates"

"Human Rights Watch evidence suggests use by Ukrainian government forces – and possibly rebels – in Donetsk attacks"

Now have some tea and relax.

:cheers:

[snake]

And they're different. Thanks for illustrating that. :)

[Suttree]

And they're different. Thanks for illustrating that. :)

No worries, although I did that a while back:

One says Ukraine and possibly rebels used cluster bombs. The other says Ukraine used cluster bombs and leaves out the rebels. So yeah, I'm still not seeing it. Are you saying that BBC included "possibly rebels" makes some huge difference here?

Is there a reason why you are avoiding addressing this? It's ok, mate, nothing to be nervous about. So you dislike the fact that the BBC added rebels into the title? Because your original post suggested the opposite. Again it's clear you hadn't read the NY Times title.

[snake]

The BBC didn't have rebels in their headline. They didn't mention the rebels using cluster bombs in their story. Even though the report said it was probable that they did although they had no direct proof. The other news outlets I mentioned mentioned the rebels part of the report. I just commented on the difference. That ypu read something different into that is rather baffling but I guess you have your reasons.

[Suttree]

Ahh you know what, that's my mistake. I see now you are comparing the BBC and the Guardian. I somehow missed that and thought you were comparing BBC and NY Times. Apologies.

[Solmyr]

Per this article the Swedish Navy is prepared to use force in attempting to find what they speculate is a Russian Sub. If they sink a Russian Sub, in Swedish waters, what does Torvarish Putin do?

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/21/world/europe/sweden-russia-submarine-mystery/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

If it's a nuclear sub they are better off not finding it ;).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Solmyr,

Okay, kidding aside if its disabled and forced to the surface or disabled and destroyed what will Putin do?

[Solmyr]

Solmyr,

Okay, kidding aside if its disabled and forced to the surface or disabled and destroyed what will Putin do?

Dunno, but I'll make sure to ask him next time we have brunch ;).

How do you expect anyone to answer a question that contains "what will Putin do" without kidding in any way? Or wait .... is Putin on this board? Am I Putin?! :eek:

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Solmyr,

Are you Putin?????

Given Putin's bellecosity I simple wonder what people think his reaction to, avowed neutral Sweden, sinking or disabling one of his subs would be.

"Well, shit, ya caught us"

"Stockholm has spilled the sacred blood if Russian Sailors it will glow with radioactive fire"

"You don't need confirmation that this was a Russian sub you disabled or desteoyed... That wasn't a Russian sub you found or destroyed... move along"

Or some other choice. Which is most likely?

[Weirwood Druid]

the OSCE now claims they haven't seen any evidence of cluster bombs and the human rights reports are mostly based on local witnesses reports. Won't surprise me if they did use cluster bombs seeing the Ukrainian army is in a sad state and doesn't have any real alternatives. Most of their equipment is from Soviet times and some even from WW2 era.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Map sites seem to be striking compromises in how they are now distinguishing Crimea from Ukraine. On google maps there is a dashed line that denotes sub-national borders but it is much darker than the other sub-national borders in Ukraine. On Mapquest they have a national border but it is only displayed at land crossings not over bodies of water so it is hard to make out.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

Solmyr,

Are you Putin?????

Given Putin's bellecosity I simple wonder what people think his reaction to, avowed neutral Sweden, sinking or disabling one of his subs would be.

"Well, shit, ya caught us"

"Stockholm has spilled the sacred blood if Russian Sailors it will glow with radioactive fire"

"You don't need confirmation that this was a Russian sub you disabled or desteoyed... That wasn't a Russian sub you found or destroyed... move along"

Or some other choice. Which is most likely?

They aren't going to sink it even if they catch it. The Swedish military isn't that crazy.

Russia does stuff like this to their neighbours all the time. Submarines are often hard to notice but another thing they did pretty recently to Sweden was sending a squadron of bombers and fighters aimed straight towards the capital, only to have them turn away right before crossing into national airspace. Something similar happened in Finland a few months ago too, IIRC, though that was only one plane.

[The Iceman of the North]

That's business as usual for Russia. The Norwegian air force have roughly 40 interception missions each year.

[Weirwood Druid]

Yup, they do this on a regular basis. It should be noted that they are doing this now far more often and more aggressively. Just their way of saying "we are still a world power, ya know!"

[Suttree]

Seems as if some infighting has started due to the sanctions and Russia's flagging economy.

The answer is almost certainly related to the multiple pressures on the Russian economy resulting from sluggish growth, the increasingly visible effects of Western sanctions and recognition that the boom years are over. This is increasing the competition for rents among business groups.

As Russia's former long-serving Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin noted recently, Russia will remain dependent on Western capital and technologies for its development. He forecast that if sanctions remain in place, they could lead to several years of economic stagnation teetering on recession.

Over recent months, it has become clear that a hawkish group is in the ascendancy in the Kremlin that cares little for economic considerations. The "economic bloc" in the government has found itself marginalized, with decision-making left to an increasingly narrow group around Putin.

The hasty passage of a law through parliament restricting foreign ownership of media outlets, as well as debate in government circles about cutting off Russia from the global Internet in the event of crisis are further signs that Russia is retreating into a traditional "besieged fortress" mentality.

The Yevtushenkov affair is an indication of the fragility at the heart of Russia's highly personalized system of power. Western sanctions are having a rapid impact because they are reinforcing broader economic weaknesses that the current Russian system is unable to counter. It cannot reconcile its survival instincts with the need for long overdue structural reforms.