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Blue Roses

The Doom of Valyria- Any Chance?

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The Shadow is a poetic term for an information barrier, kind of like the Iron Curtain during the Cold War.

That is my interpretation.

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Just rereading AFFC and this jumped out at me - possibly related to the Doom. The Kindly Man is explaining the origins of the Faceless Men to Arya

So the Faceless Men destroyed the slavemasters of Old Valyria.....in the Doom?

It is a very interesting theory, especially if you consider the location of the mines and the aftermath of the doom.

Valyria morghulis?

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Any chance that we will get any further information on the Doom of Valyria?

Perhaps if you are running with the idea of a maester's notebook we could have a couple of maps, one before the Doom and one after with the maester's notes on what was suppose to have happened, the hearsay and the myths surrounding the smoking seas? Perhaps some fragments copied from older texts giving tantalising clues to the role of dragons, Valyrian magic (and subsequent decline) and the collapse of the Freehold would be very nice as well.

I think that The Doom was a/multiple volcanic eruptions. At some point in AFfC when talking about Euron it is mentioned that Valyria is still hot/burning and the waters around it boil. We also know that the slaves of Valyria, as explained during the history of the Faceless Men, worked in mines in extreme heat and that they would occasionally dig a tunnel too far and get consumed by fire (Lava?)

All this seems consistent with a volatile/active volcano. As for a real world comparison the Earth has some volcanoes beg enough to kill off entire continents. I had a professor who was a Volcanologist who said that if Yellowstone National Park (one of the biggest volcanoes on the planet) were to errupt there would be 3 feet of ash covering the east coast withing 2 weeks.

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In the very first Dany chapter that takes place in Illyrio's palace in Pentos there is a tapestry on one of the walls depicting the Doom of Valyria. So whatever the Doom is, it can be shown on a tapestry.

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I am basing my next role playing campaign based on this very thing. I know its my own theory and speculation, but I think it will be fun.

Once D&D 4th Edition goes online I may even invite players from this forum to play.

Sorry OT first, but you play 4th ed? sorry but can't be friends XDDD

I heard somewhere that the doom of Valyria and the seasons are connected and that yes, they would be explained

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I agree that, as mentioned earlier, the "Doom" is a better plot device when it is kept a mystery to the reader, at least through most of the series.

I find it rather fascinating that readers of fantasy novels seek rational SCIENTIFIC explanations for obvious fantasy plots, such as the long Winters and the Broken Arm =)

There is, in my opinion, no reason it should req

uire any oher explanation but "it was magic", at least as long as there is an internal logic to it.

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It sounds like a massive volcanic eruption, based on the whole line "the Doom fell on Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer".* Something triggered the Fourteen Fires (a bunch of volcanoes that you can sort of see on the map of Valyria from A Storm of Swords), and that massive eruption destroyed the land bridge to Essos while shooting a ton of ash into the air, which then smothered Valyria and the nearby areas in the Lands of the Long Summer. Think of it as being like the destruction of Pompeii by Mt.Vesuvius.

* Speaking of which, I've heard that quote all over the place, but I can't place the source.

The precursors to the Faceless Men could have been that "something", although they seem to have lost their peninsula-destroying powers in the interim 400 years. ;) It's also possible that the High Lords of Valyria were using magic to somehow keep the Fourteen Fires "tamed", and the deaths of several of them at key moments resulted in a loss of control.

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Hmmm, not too sure about a major impact event knocking the planet off it's orbit. Such an impact event would kill off every living thing on the planet, at least any advanced multicellular form of life. A smaller meteor strike could certainly cause a Long Winter, but wouldn't be enough to explain the wacky seasons.

It could have been a large astronomical body that didn't collide, but passed close enough to cause the planet's orbit to be disturbed. Any lagging debris from the body could have impacted Westeros causing the long night.

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Or maybe the orbit of the Westeros planet is not circular but elliptic ?

Even earth has an elleptical orbit, as do all planets in the solar system. Because of it, a planet may have different seasons having different lengths, but the seasons can't be irregular.

Also, the orbit actually only partly contributes to the season. The actual cause of seasons on a planet is the tilting of the planet back and forth between 23.5N and 23.5S latitudes (on earth).

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So here's my theory on what happened to Valyria..

Along the lines of "The dwarves dug too deep and to greedily. They woke a nameless fear. There are worse things than orcs and goblins in the dark places of the world" from the Lord of The Rings,

We know Valyria was big on mining and their valyrian steel was bound with magic. Something as simple as touching a fault-line could have triggered major cataclysms like mine-cave-ins, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis.

To add to this, there was magic in place there. The kind of Magic that exacerbated everything, because that was the nature of the magic there - the strong became stronger, the fast became faster, the weak didn't survive.

All the cataclysmic events got magnified because of the magic.

In addition, and this may or may not make sense, but.. there were large cave-dwelling worms in the mines of Valyria, no?

what if in the madness ensuing the cataclysm, the worms which were fiery by nature tried to escape by leaving the mines but ended up in the seas surrounding Valyria. This would explain the smoking seas, yes?

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It sounds like a massive volcanic eruption, based on the whole line "the Doom fell on Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer".* Something triggered the Fourteen Fires (a bunch of volcanoes that you can sort of see on the map of Valyria from A Storm of Swords), and that massive eruption destroyed the land bridge to Essos while shooting a ton of ash into the air, which then smothered Valyria and the nearby areas in the Lands of the Long Summer.

Which peninsula would that be? The Arm of Dorne was according to legend shattered by the Children of the Forest’s greenseers long, long before the Doom, in a futile attempt to stem the invading tides of First Men from migrating to Westeros from Essos. I agree that that was an impressive feat, but it was not related to the Doom so far as we know.

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Which peninsula would that be? The Arm of Dorne was according to legend shattered by the Children of the Forest’s greenseers long, long before the Doom, in a futile attempt to stem the invading tides of First Men from migrating to Westeros from Essos. I agree that that was an impressive feat, but it was not related to the Doom so far as we know.

The Valyrian Peninsula, I guess. The peninsula was shattered by the eruption of the Fourteen Fires, which sank the land-bridge and left Valyria the cluster of broken, smouldering islands we see on the maps in ASoS and ADWD.

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I hope George gives us more info on the doom, either in the next book or in a seprate book or something, Cool subject

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I just started getting into the series, and I must say the subject of the Doom is very intriguing, but as I was reading the posts here about magic and such, a question sprung to my mind.

In ASoIAF, magic is indeed real right? As in science can´t explain it.

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I just started getting into the series, and I must say the subject of the Doom is very intriguing, but as I was reading the posts here about magic and such, a question sprung to my mind.

In ASoIAF, magic is indeed real right? As in science can´t explain it.

I would recommend not visiting the forums, especially the ASoIaF-specific ones, until you're up to date with the books. There are some huge twists it would be a shame to have spoiled.

The answer to your question is that science in Westeros is trying to explain all manner of things, but there are some elements in the world that seem beyond it :)

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kinda like if you took a laptop to medieval England.

(you'd need the cd's too cos internet reception would be literally non-existent)

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Well, since I'm fan of ASoIaF, and also geology graduate, these topics are very interesting to me.

First about long winters - scientific explanation of this occurrence is out of the question, no need to speculate about asteroids and stuff. Firstly it's irregular, so no connecting it to some natural cycles. Second - it's repeating, and any disaster would just make ONE long winter before everything comes back to normal. My guess would be that it is somehow connected to The Others, and rising and waning of different magic types (seems logical that if there is fire related magic, there is ice counterpart).

Doom of Valyria can have scientific explanation if you would prefer one. Fourteen connected volcanoes are similar to Fire Ring we have right here on earth. This term is connected with rift zones in Pacific ocean,blah, blah... Anyhow it is possible that during some strong earthquake volcanoes erupt simultaneously, bringing fiery death and destruction to everything around them. Smoking seas can also be sign of continuing volcanic activity underwater. So Doom can, but doesn't need to, have scientific reason.

What Martin has in mind is probably another thing altogether...

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