Blazfemur Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I know, i know. Before you click reply and send me all your SSM quotes or whatever if they exist, hear me out: 1) Take into account, the Summerhall tragedy (blood sacrifice to hatch a dragon, that went wrong) (metaphorically, a dragon DID hatch, as it was Rhaeger's birthday)2) As the Summerhall tragedy is apparently known, the idea of blood sacrifices arent at all secretive if you undergo the proper training.3) Danaerys' wedding WAS in fact orchestrated (by Varys/Illyrio), the intent was supposedly "wed to drogo, viserys gains an army."4) One of the series' big masterminds just so happens to gift Danaerys 3 eggs? With no other intent at all? I would suggest: 1) Either Viserys was the intended sacrifice, and thats why Illyrio "put up with" him for so long OR 2) The marriage was actually made so Danaerys would get purposely pregnant, and then use that pregnancy, as the intended sacrifice to hatch those dragons. EITHER WAY I would conclude the dragons hatching were meant to happen all along, and it WASNT an accident. Rereading presently to verify this, also taking into account, could Mirri have been placed where she was "found?" It's a known fact that Marwyn trained Mirri, who performed the services. Could she have been placed there by the citadel? Or dictated by Marwyn to do what she did via his glass candle? On the other hand, if it was intentional, this would place Illyrio and Mirri together on the same plot, then possibly Marwyn and Illyrio together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Definitely can't wait for when danaerys meets mirri. rereading again will take some time to get that far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Seems to complicated to predict. How could they know Viserys or Rhaego would die? How could they know the Dothraki would attack that village? And what if the Dothraki had just killed Mirri? A simpler explanation for the dragon eggs is insurance. If anything goes wrong the Targaryens can probably just buy their way out of it with one or more of the eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I too have never been satisfied with any explanation I've heard for Dany getting three dragon eggs from Illyrio if in fact he just wants her to go into the desert to die (many people seem to think this, since they believe Illyrio is a Blackfyre and wants to remove all Targaryens in favor of his son Aegon). It just doesn't make sense - dragons eggs are too rare, and Aegon doesn't have a single one. Even if Illyrio wanted Dany to marry Aegon, why not just give her own egg, or two, keeping own to help make Aegon seem legitimate?For this reason I suspect that Varys/Illyrio at least hoped that Dany would hatch the eggs. I think it's a little less intentional that what you posit though. Let's say that Varys and Illyrio were privy to the prophecies that led to Summerhall - these prophecies point to someone in Aerys and Rhaellas line awaking dragons from stone. As far as I and V know, only Viserys and Dany remain. I think they took a gamble in the hopes dragons would return simply due to this fact, and it paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Seems to complicated to predict. How could they know Viserys or Rhaego would die? How could they know the Dothraki would attack that village? And what if the Dothraki had just killed Mirri? A simpler explanation for the dragon eggs is insurance. If anything goes wrong the Targaryens can probably just buy their way out of it with one or more of the eggs. well no i mean the marriage itself wouldve been planned JUST to get danaerys pregnant, to sacrifice to hatch the dragons, is the basic premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 I too have never been satisfied with any explanation I've heard for Dany getting three dragon eggs from Illyrio if in fact he just wants her to go into the desert to die (many people seem to think this, since they believe Illyrio is a Blackfyre and wants to remove all Targaryens in favor of his son Aegon).It just doesn't make sense - dragons eggs are too rare, and Aegon doesn't have a single one. Even if Illyrio wanted Dany to marry Aegon, why not just give her own egg, or two, keeping own to help make Aegon seem legitimate?For this reason I suspect that Varys/Illyrio at least hoped that Dany would hatch the eggs.I think it's a little less intentional that what you posit though. Let's say that Varys and Illyrio were privy to the prophecies that led to Summerhall - these prophecies point to someone in Aerys and Rhaellas line awaking dragons from stone. As far as I and V know, only Viserys and Dany remain. I think they took a gamble in the hopes dragons would return simply due to this fact, and it paid off. ah, you make an interesting point, though. why not give the eggs to aegon? why danaerys? because she's a female. she can reproduce. her pregnancy, is why they gave HER the eggs. rhaego's blood, valyrian blood (not kingsblood), to hatch the eggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 well no i mean the marriage itself wouldve been planned JUST to get danaerys pregnant, to sacrifice to hatch the dragons, is the basic premise. Most marriages are planned to get the wife pregnant. But how would they know that there would be a sacrifice. Either Viserys or the baby need to die for that to happen right? Why would they assume either would end up dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Most marriages are planned to get the wife pregnant. But how would they know that there would be a sacrifice. Either Viserys or the baby need to die for that to happen right? Why would they assume either would end up dead? i think we're miscommunicating here lol. by "they" you mean varys/illyrio, right? im saying mirri was working with them, that it was no accident whent hey stumbled on her. i dont think illyrio would give danaerys the eggs, if he didnt have the intention on hatching them. wrapping this into my blood theories, it would take valyrian blood to properly fuel the magic. mrri, knows this magic, taught to her by marwyn. viserys (valyrian blooded), danaerys (valyrian blooded), and rhaego (half-valyrian blooded, or full, dont know dothraki blood content). the intention of illyrio, bringing danaerys to the dothraki, was to get her pregnant, to produce a baby with valyrian blood, that would be sacrificed to hatch. illyrio being the one with this intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 ah, you make an interesting point, though. why not give the eggs to aegon? why danaerys? because she's a female. she can reproduce. her pregnancy, is why they gave HER the eggs. rhaego's blood, valyrian blood (not kingsblood), to hatch the eggsLike I said, I think it's a stretch to believe Illyrio and Varys orchestrated anything specific. However, I do think that they at least hoped that either Viserys or Daenerys would wake dragons from stone. We have a prophecy about this that many people knew about, and it was the reason Aerys and Rhaella were wed, it's the reason Summerhall happened, it's the reason Rhaegar said there must be three heads. It's unlikely Varys and Illyrio wouldn't know it. I assume the eggs were given to Daenerys rather than Viserys because they had the wedding as a good excuse for such a present. In the unlikely case Viserys was the chosen one, well he'd meet up with his sister and the eggs sooner or later . He didn't give them to Aegon because he was a Blackfyre and not of Aerys and Rhaellas line, so cannot fulfill the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 i think we're miscommunicating here lol. by "they" you mean varys/illyrio, right? im saying mirri was working with them, that it was no accident whent hey stumbled on her. i dont think illyrio would give danaerys the eggs, if he didnt have the intention on hatching them. wrapping this into my blood theories, it would take valyrian blood to properly fuel the magic. mrri, knows this magic, taught to her by marwyn. viserys (valyrian blooded), danaerys (valyrian blooded), and rhaego (half-valyrian blooded, or full, dont know dothraki blood content). the intention of illyrio, bringing danaerys to the dothraki, was to get her pregnant, to produce a baby with valyrian blood, that would be sacrificed to hatch. illyrio being the one with this intention. Yes they is Varys/Illyrio. I understand your theory. I just don't see how it's possible. How could they have arranged MIrri meeting Dany? The dothraki attacked a random Lhazareen village and Dany happened to see a dothraki soldier raping her. What if Dany didn't stop it? what if the dothraki killed Mirri? Also if all Illyrio needs to wake a dragon is Valyrian blood then why bother with the Dothraki. Just have Mirri come to Pentos and have Viserys put a child in Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I agree. The author planned the whole thing. He KNEW those eggs were going to hatch. On a more serious note. It is possible, Lord Blazfemur. Unlikely, but possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Yes they is Varys/Illyrio. I understand your theory. I just don't see how it's possible. How could they have arranged MIrri meeting Dany? The dothraki attacked a random Lhazareen village and Dany happened to see a dothraki soldier raping her. What if Dany didn't stop it? what if the dothraki killed Mirri? Also if all Illyrio needs to wake a dragon is Valyrian blood then why bother with the Dothraki. Just have Mirri come to Pentos and have Viserys put a child in Dany. Maybe it all has to be done out in the open and that's why whatever they tried at Summerhall didn't work. The logistics of working out all of the details would be really hard though. If any character did that, it had to be someone who is into magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Given Varys hatred for all things magical, I really can't see him being involved in blood magic schemes similar to the one that castrated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 1. I think there was intent with the eggs, namely the intent for her to sell them when the time came for ships and an army. They also prove to Drogo that he gets what he paid for. In every pre-hatching context in which the eggs are described, they're compared to currency. 2. In order for the egg-hatching to be as orchestrated as it occurred, you have think that: Varys and Illyrio were willing to overlook almost two centuries of hatching failure; they could predict when/that Dany would get pregnant; they knew Viserys would die but not Dany; they knew Drogo would get the infected wound; they'd know that Dany would end up in the proximity of a maegi who would offer up advice to Drogo that Dany would take seriously; Drogo would disregard said advice and that Dany would then agree to the blood magic horse swap; that said ritual would kill Rhaego; and Dany would then decide to burn the maegi on a funeral pyre with the eggs on it. There are simply too many moving parts there for them to be in control of all of it, or even any of it. Even if you think Mirri was a plant, you still have to account for Dany having her be spared and taking possession of her at all, Dany ultimately choosing to take her advice and Dany eventually burning her. I agree with you that Summerhall was done based on a dragon prophecy that turned out to be metaphorical, but that still doesn't explain a jump from something being metaphorical to something being literal. Finally, the author has described the event itself as "miracle," a word that it highly inaccurate if the entire thing had been orchestrated from afar. Tl, dr: Varys is not a god and not everything is under his direct control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Also, Illyrio expected Dany not to survive in the Dothraki sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m'lady Melisandre Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Has anyone already mentioned Aliens here? Because I'm pretty sure they fit in this nth conspirational theory as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Also, Illyrio expected Dany not to survive in the Dothraki sea. The Golden Company was working under a different assumption then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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