Seaworth'sShipmate Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Is there any sympathy or understanding of how Randyll Tarly treated his son Sam? I know he was hard, and cruel and merciless in his raising of Sam, sort of like a 1950s dad on steroids. But I think his treatment of Sam was somewhat understandable considering the time and place in which he lived. He needed a strong male heir, someone who would be able to lead armies into battle and defend Horn Hill if it ever came under attack. Instead Sam just likes to eat sweet treats and pick flowers, and basically behave like a Westerosi version of Winnie the Pooh. I could see how Randyll might resent him for not even trying to make an effort to be good at hunting, archery or swordsmanship. By the standards of the time, Im not sure Randyll was that demanding or unreasonable of a father, as to what is expected of a son. I think he actually would be fine raising uncrippled Bran Stark or Prince Tommen, both more bookish "peaceful" characters, but could who could still be bothered to learn the basics of swordsmanship and archery. Again, I don't like how Randyll treated Sam, but I think at least part of it is understandable, and based on the preservation of the Tarly family and estates, and legitimate fears that Sam wasn't up to defending them. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Understanding=/=sympathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound3.0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 A father trying to teach his son; the basics of being a strong man/lord that is capable of ruling and managing a region is one thing. But when you all but come out say; "Son, I'm going to personally kill you soon," is a horse of a different color. Therefore R. Tarly is absolutely a POS scum bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I understand his frustration that Sam was as soft as he was. You never know when you are going to become invalid so a weak heir jepoardize everything. It puts yourself at risk should you become invalid and it puts those who remain behind (Wife and other children) at risk. And Sam was almsot cartoonishly weak. But he loses any sympathy when he send him to the Night Watch under threat of death. The Citadel was a perfectly valid alternative except for his wounded pride. What so the other warrior lords are gonna make a few jokes at your expenses at the banquets because your son is a Maester instead of a fighter? What an ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 A father trying to teach his son; the basics of being a strong man/lord that is capable of ruling and managing a region is one thing. But when you all but come out say; "Son, I'm going to personally kill you soon," is a horse of a different color. Therefore R. Tarly is absolutely a POS scum bag. I sort of agree. Its not as if Sam was going to challenge his brother's right anyway, or have the guts to assert it (prior to before he killed the white walker.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 He is certainly not in a position where he needs sympathy. He feels like his son has failed him, but in some ways it seems like he failed his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell Resident Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's almost impossible to find sympathy for Randyll Tarly. I strongly believe Randyll Tarly and Tywin Lannister were no different in the way they treated their sons. The sons they felt represented the family well they would go above and beyond to make their lives easier. The sons they felt did not represesent the family well and were perhaps close to being next in line for succession they would go above and beyond to drive them out of their lives if not, find a way to have them killed. (Sam Tarly and Tyrion Lannister). Giving Sam some tough love like for example, "I am going to leave you out here in these woods, if you don't hunt and kill a deer or boar and bring it back home by the end of the day, I will take away your privileges for a month." is one thing. But, telling Sam that his mother will be told that he fell off a horse and will be found dead in the woods is another. If this last statement was from the HBO series, I apologize for that. There are times when the HBO series does blur with the books. And they do it very well, I may add. So forgive me. Do I have sympathy for the Randyll? The answer is no. because I believe he really would have killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Do you agree he would have looked more kindly on someone like Bran or Tommen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell Resident Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 To Lord Arryn, I believe he would have looked more kindly towards Bran because Bran has always envisioned himself as a Knight/Warrior before the fall. I don't believe he would have looked more kindly towards Tommen because Tommen is more like Sam Tarly as far as not looking to be a warrior of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindrot Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think Randyll is a great character, certainly one of GRRMs best "grey" characters considering we don't have a PoV for him: He is a harsh man, undoubtly, but he is also a fair man. His handing out of "justice" at...Maidenpool I believe?...is a clear example of this. While ordering the diseased whore be made to wash her privates with lye is cruel in our eyes, Randyll's understanding of medicine etc is very limited and he is only doing it to prevent further harm from spreading. We do not see him abusing his power, we see him doing what he believes is best in the extremely trying times and circumstances he is placed in. I think the same can be said for his treatment of Sam. While I agree with an above poster that he should have sent him to the Tower instead of the Wall, I think it's important to know why he was left with only those 2 choices: According to law I don't think Randyll can bypass Sam and give his lands to his second son if the first is still alive and of sound mind etc. The fact that Sam would never challenge his younger brothers claim to the lands is irrelevant. Sam was clearly not strong enough to handle the Lordship that would have been bestowed upon him (IMO even Sam the Slayer is still not strong enough, and he is light years from Sam the Coward that first arrives at the Wall). Randyll's threat about killing Sam is abusive and wrong, I think he can simply order the boy to the Wall, but in Randylls mind the potential loss of life and land if Sam is Lord Tarly far outweighs one mans life (even if that 1 man is your son). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Understanding=/=sympathy :agree: Between his treatment of Sam and his treatment of Brienne, I have no sympathy for him. Even Tywin wasn't that cruel to Tyrion for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bittersteel Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I understand why he wanted his heir to be a strong warrior and uphold his families traditions obviously but the death threat makes it hard to sympathize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howland Reeds Weed Swamp Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Sam went through torture with him around. He couldn't sit on his mothers lap at a young age and read a book to her or anything. Once he knew his dad was walking through the door he instantly knew he wasn't safe. How is that right? You shouldn't need to be afraid of someone who is supposed to protect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 To Lord Arryn, I believe he would have looked more kindly towards Bran because Bran has always envisioned himself as a Knight/Warrior before the fall. I don't believe he would have looked more kindly towards Tommen because Tommen is more like Sam Tarly as far as not looking to be a warrior of some sort. Tommen went to yards everyday, he wants Kinght of Flower to teach him the skill of a Knight, he is no Sam in this area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 A father trying to teach his son; the basics of being a strong man/lord that is capable of ruling and managing a region is one thing. But when you all but come out say; "Son, I'm going to personally kill you soon," is a horse of a different color. Therefore R. Tarly is absolutely a POS scum bag. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 A father trying to teach his son; the basics of being a strong man/lord that is capable of ruling and managing a region is one thing. But when you all but come out say; "Son, I'm going to personally kill you soon," is a horse of a different color. Therefore R. Tarly is absolutely a POS scum bag. :agree: Do people really think that chld abuse because the child is not brat hard enough is understandable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 When I first heard about Randyll Tarly from Sam's story, I thought What a big asshole. Then, when I actually encountered Ranydll in person three books later, I thought Man, what a giant asshole. I find it hard to have even an ounce of sympathy for him. If he was so limited and narrow-minded that he couldn't make use of abilities Sam possessed (that e.g. maester Aemon and Jon Snow recognized), he could have at the very least agreed to send him to Citadel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Trollton. Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm not sure what to feel regarding Randyll. He's a honest, brave and just - if quite harsh - guy, but also a douchebag. All I can say is he is a great ,grey character. Also, do you guys really think Randyll would've killed Sam? Consider that he's a hugely conservative, traditional Westerosi nobleman. A guy like that takes religion and cultural taboos seriously. See when he severly punished that thief in Maidenpool for stealing from a sept, for instance. I doubt Randyll would've cared to bring the kinslaying taboo upon himself. He most likely said that to scare Sam, and was 100% certain that his son would take the threat seriously considering how coward he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm not sure what to feel regarding Randyll. He's a honest, brave and just - if quite harsh - guy, but also a douchebag. All I can say is he is a great ,grey character. Yes."Wash out her private parts with lye and throw her in a dungeon" so honest, brave and just. :bang: Also, do you guys really think Randyll would've killed Sam? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the one eared cat Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Understanding=/=sympathy :agree: Also, he did not have to threaten to kill his son - I'm sure there must be ways of up/downgrading your sons in the inheritance rankings that don't involve murdering your eldest or sending them away never to be seen again. Other roles could have been found for Sam that didn't rip him away from a seemingly loving family with one horrible man at the head of the family. So nope, no sympathy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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