Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 cousin... and since he was just Daemon Blackfyre, instead of Daemon IV, he probably was son of the seventh son of Daemon I, while Maelys is son of the sixth.. :dunno: If that was the case, then there had been no reason for Maelys to kill Daemon, nor any reason for the GC to listen to Daemon over Maelys. That this Daemon was simply named "Daemon", and not "Daemon IV" only shows that he was never crowned, never declared himself an official pretender. Since Maelys found it necessary to kill Daemon in order to gain the GC, I guess that Maelys descended from a younger son than Daemon did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 On the fourth Daemon: I guess he is descended from an older son of Daemon I than Maelys (that is, either Aenys, or the sixth son) since it seems that the fourth Daemon was the captain-general of the Golden Company before Maelys killed him. It would be fitting if Maelys himself descended from the seventh son of Daemon I. That would reinforce the closure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Wasn't Daemon III described as "elder"/"eldest" son of Haegon? There remains the possibility that Daemon IV and Maelys were both descended from Haegon as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Also possible, of course. Though the fourth Daemon would need to have been a grandson of Haegon, though, as I highly doubt that Haegon would name both of his sons Daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Well, would that not mean that Haegon had two sons named Daemon? Or do you think Daemon (IV) may have been a grandson of Haegon III through Daemon III or one of his younger brothers? During the Fourth Rebellion the phrase 'Blackfyres' is used (they 'suffered a crushing defeat' or something like that). That could mean that not only Daemon III but other Blackfyres also died at the Wendwater Bridge. The same could also be true for the Third Rebellion, where most likely all older members of House Blackfyre were involved - if Bittersteel and Calla had any sons, I expect that they died in this war. Daemon III seems to be somewhat young when Bittersteel crowns him in 220 AC, but he clearly could have been married and had children of his own in 236 AC. Unfortunately we don't know when Maelys kills his cousin Daemon, nor how old this guy was at that time - both makes it difficult to decide how old they were at that time. And considering that Maelys is supposed to be the Blackfyre version of Gregor Clegane he could have already been in his forties for during the War of the Ninepenny Kings for all we know. That would not have made him any less dangerous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Annaly Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Maybe Maelys may have had seniority over the fourth Daemon but Daemon tried to usurp Maelys (ironic) and so Maelys had to kill his cousin pretender to the Blackfyre in a leadership contest. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Given what we know of Maelys, that scenario just isn't very likely. Not impossible, but very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Widow of Coldmoat Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 A Targaryen-Tarth match could make sense in that capacity, although I guess first Daeron will be married to Kiera (that is not yet the case in THK or any of the other Dunk and Egg stories). I'd assume that Daeron probably married Kiera before or around the time of The Sword Sword. We know she had to have married Valarr before the Great Spring Sickness (since that's when he died) and since she went on to marry Daeron, I'm not sure we should assume she was left single for very long after she was widowed. Granted, we haven't heard about Daeron being married at all in the Dunk and Egg books, but I'm not sure that means it hasn't happened yet. One might think that Egg would have been there for the wedding, but if it was done quickly after the Great Spring Sickness, it might not have been possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Just as you say, we would have had heard of it. And considering that Vaella was only born in 222 AC, if I remember correctly, it is somewhat unlikely that they married all that early. Considering the situation between Aerys I and Maekar we have also to assume that Daeron resides with Maekar at Summerhall, whereas Kiera would be with Aerys I at KL. I imagine that this wedding only occurs after Maekar and Aerys I are reconciled. Depending on how Kiera is related to Rohanne it would also be possible that it only takes place after the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Well, would that not mean that Haegon had two sons named Daemon? Or do you think Daemon (IV) may have been a grandson of Haegon III through Daemon III or one of his younger brothers? I was thinking that Daeron IV could be a grandson of Haegon, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Unfortunately we don't know when Maelys kills his cousin Daemon, nor how old this guy was at that time - both makes it difficult to decide how old they were at that time. And considering that Maelys is supposed to be the Blackfyre version of Gregor Clegane he could have already been in his forties for during the War of the Ninepenny Kings for all we know. That would not have made him any less dangerous... The only clue that we have is the artwork depicted Maelys during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, when he is shown with greying hair, and looking somewhat middle-aged. This may not be canon of course, just the artist's interpretation without any guidance from GRRM/Ran/Linda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 The only clue that we have is the artwork depicted Maelys during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, when he is shown with greying hair, and looking somewhat middle-aged. This may not be canon of course, just the artist's interpretation without any guidance from GRRM/Ran/Linda. That's a good point.. How canon is the art in the book? Does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Ran has said that George is not looking the artist over the shoulder, but a lot of pictures in the book are really spot-on insofar was the descriptions are concerned. George has stated that he really worked with Ted Nasmith to get all the castles right, for instance (although he may prefer the end paper Dragonstone over Ted's). There are inconsistencies - Daemon II does not have black hair when he is captured, Tywin does not have blue/lilac eyes, and so on. But there is no reason to assume that many such things exist. The age of Maelys would also depend on how old Daemon's youngest son was during the First Rebellion. Was he already born? Still an infant? If he had been born in 196/7 AC, he would be in his mid-sixties during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, and Maelys could easily be his son, if he was in his forties when he died. We know for a certainty that all the other Blackfyres from the male line (i.e. all the other sons of Daemon and their male sons and grandsons through sons) were that by this point. This scenario would work best if assume that the Third and Fourth Rebellion cut various branches of the Blackfyre tree - say, that, besides Haegon, any sons that Bittersteel and Calla may have had died in the Third Rebellion, and Daemon's sixth son. The Fourth Rebellion could have seen the end of the male branch of Haegon's line, with not only Daemon III dying but all their brothers as well. In addition, the seventh son - possibly Maelys' father - may have died, too. Afterwards Daemon IV took over, possibly a son of the sixth son, or one of Aenys' sons. My guess is that Haegon ended up marrying one of his younger sisters, whereas Bittersteel may have married Daemon III to one of his daughters by Calla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.