"The Pact of Ice and Fire" (TWOIAF SPOILERS) R+L=J proven even more

[sj4iy]

im actually not serious. chillax

There's a font for that.

[Fire Eater]

No. Meera and Jojen swear their fealty to Bran by "Ice and Fire."

ETA your initial statement is still wrong.

Dany's vision of Rhaegar refers to Aegon, who has nothing to do with a marriage pact between Stark and Targ.

So we only have one out of three uses of the term (and one is a fan fiction account) that the term is used for an S/T marriage pact.

Was Rhaegar right about Aegon's song being the "song of ice and fire?" . . . Then, I don't think that is applicable.

They swear "by ice and fire" not "of ice and fire;" as two separate things not a joining of the two, and not as the title of something. It may be a bit nit picky, I know. R+L=J isn't fan ficiton if that is what you're referring to.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The Pact of Ice and Fire R+L=J is proven ? Maybe, if not taken literally ,the pact states that a Targaryen princess will marry into the Stark family , the word is princess it is intended for the female to probably marry the Stark heir ,2 Since the Starks is to hold honor above all he could have told Brandon and Rickard Stark that he is fulfilling the promise made to (Don) Cregan Stark . I still need more proof .

[TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms]

So just say the pact actually happened, would Lord Cregan get a Targaryen match for himself or his heir or would Joffrey, Aegon or Viserys have taken a Stark wife?

[clair de lune]

Good catch, the only time the term "of ice and fire" is used in something it refers to a marriage pact between a Stark and a Targaryen. Therefore, "a song of ice and fire" could refer to an event involving both Stark and Targaryen, and if it refers to a person than Jon is the only person who can fit this description given his heritage.

Perhaaps, when Rhaegar said that Aegon's was the 'song of ice and fire,' he then intended to have a daughter by Lyanna who would marry Aegon.

[Selengana]

It's "his is the song of ice and fire", not "he is". The song doesn't seem to be a person. To me, this song can be a fight - a fight of swords. Martin often describes sword fights as "songs", "singing of swords" etc.. I noticed that ASOIAF is a series as much about people as about particular swords (look even at the titles!). We follow Ned's Ice since the first scene with the Starks (execution) to King's Landing, where it changes its owner and is later reforged... and we still follow it, as it's with Tommen and Brienne now. It seems to me that characters owning Ice are those very important to the story and that they gain importance as they get the sword (but also have a great chance do die soon - see Ned and Joff, and Tommen and Brienne probably too).

And Fire? It can refer to Lightbringer. The flaming sword. I think it will eventually appear - we've been prepared for that with prophecies, Stannis's sword, Beric's sword. We know how to tell a difference between a normal flaming sword and Linghtbringer, we know how it must be forged, and by whom. It's all here for a reason :)

So, I believe Rhaegar believed Aegon to be the Azor Ahai. Simple as that. As AA, he would somehow get the Lightbringer and "have his song (=fight)". Did Rhaegar realise that Lightbringer would clash with Ice? Not necessarily. He could have as well believe his son would have to fight the Night King or generally the others. Maybe Rhaegar somehow predicted / read in some book that the winter that comes in several years will be the new Long Night or something.

So how can it be? I think that the final fight will be a "song" of Ice and Lightbringer. Whichever part wins, takes it all. At the one corner, we'll have Azor Ahai, at the other - somebody that will get Ice (Jon? Night's King?).

The second option: this "song" will not be a swords fight, but a more methaporical clash of Fire (Dragon, Targs) and Ice (the others, maybe Jon) - it would as well be OK with what Rhaegar said. Still, as fight, it qualifies as a "song". Anyway, building such a history of Ned's Ice and the fact it's always there on the stage, and preparing ground for eventually forging Lightbringer (we already know AA for sure) are there for a reason :)

[Mithras]

It's "his is the song of ice and fire", not "he is". The song doesn't seem to be a person. To me, this song can be a fight - a fight of swords. Martin often describes sword fights as "songs", "singing of swords" etc.. I noticed that ASOIAF is a series as much about people as about particular swords (look even at the titles!). We follow Ned's Ice since the first scene with the Starks (execution) to King's Landing, where it changes its owner and is later reforged... and we still follow it, as it's with Tommen and Brienne now. It seems to me that characters owning Ice are those very important to the story and that they gain importance as they get the sword (but also have a great chance do die soon - see Ned and Joff, and Tommen and Brienne probably too).

And Fire? It can refer to Lightbringer. The flaming sword. I think it will eventually appear - we've been prepared for that with prophecies, Stannis's sword, Beric's sword. We know how to tell a difference between a normal flaming sword and Linghtbringer, we know how it must be forged, and by whom. It's all here for a reason :)

So, I believe Rhaegar believed Aegon to be the Azor Ahai. Simple as that. As AA, he would somehow get the Lightbringer and "have his song (=fight)". Did Rhaegar realise that Lightbringer would clash with Ice? Not necessarily. He could have as well believe his son would have to fight the Night King or generally the others. Maybe Rhaegar somehow predicted / read in some book that the winter that comes in several years will be the new Long Night or something.

So how can it be? I think that the final fight will be a "song" of Ice and Lightbringer. Whichever part wins, takes it all. At the one corner, we'll have Azor Ahai, at the other - somebody that will get Ice (Jon? Night's King?).

The second option: this "song" will not be a swords fight, but a more methaporical clash of Fire (Dragon, Targs) and Ice (the others, maybe Jon) - it would as well be OK with what Rhaegar said. Still, as fight, it qualifies as a "song". Anyway, building such a history of Ned's Ice and the fact it's always there on the stage, and preparing ground for eventually forging Lightbringer (we already know AA for sure) are there for a reason :)

“Oh, Alayne, Alayne, my fair maid, give me the gift of your innocence. You will thank the gods you did. I’ll have you singing louder than the Lady Lysa.”

Intercourse between a Stark maiden and a harpist is likened to singing. Their product must be a song. Between the right Stark maiden (Lyanna) and the right harpist (Rhaegar), this song (Jon) becomes the Song of Ice and Fire.