Can we really blame Aerys?

[Salafi Stannis]

He was a tyrant who did do some truly awful things, including rape, murder, abuse of power, spousal abuse, torture and more, but is it really his fault? He was insane, probably suffering from some form of paranoid schizophrenia, and God knows what else. Can we blame the truly insane for their actions?

[Ser Cold Fingers]

From the Westerosi point of view...yes...he is at fault. He might not be able to control his madness, but what is the other option? Continue to let him burn people? Eradicate entire families?

[Beanis Buttershield]

He was a tyrant who did do some truly awful things, including rape, murder, abuse of power, spousal abuse, torture and more, but is it really his fault? He was insane, probably suffering from some form of paranoid schizophrenia, and God knows what else. Can we blame the truly insane for their actions?

Well.. today, the mentally ill are still incarcerated, but they are considered separate from people who voluntarily murder/rape/etc. I think this is true of Westeros. People still blame him for everything and hold him and only him responsible.. though they are still aware that the Targaryens paid the price of insanity for their reign over dragons.

[Maid So Fair]

Yes, we can. He clearly wasn't insane enough (most people aren't) not to realise that his actions had consequences and that what he was doing was going to cause harm and suffering and was therefore morally wrong. He knew perfectly well what happened to people being burned alive, yet he did it anyway. He had the mental faculty to realise his wife had no desire to sleep with him, and certainly not to be additionally abused in the process, but he did it anyway because he did not care and he got off on it.

[The Blue Knight]

I think that 99% of people who take pleasure in rape, murder, spousal abuse, and extravagant executions and torture methods have some sort of mental or psychological handicap.

Can we have someone like that ruling a country, no. So technically it "wasn't" his fault, but who would Robert Baratheon have blamed for the death of his betrothed, and his friend's father and brother?

[Maid So Fair]

I think that 99% of people who take pleasure in rape, murder, spousal abuse, and extravagant executions and torture methods have some sort of mental or psychological handicap.

Can we have someone like that ruling a country, no. So technically it "wasn't" his fault, but who would Robert Baratheon have blamed for the death of his betrothed, and his friend's father and brother?

And we still send the ones that are convicted to jail because 99% of them are still aware of what they're doing and how wrong it is despite their mental issues. Whose fault was it if not his?

[Fat Mac]

Yes, we can. Crazy or no, it's hard to not blame the guy that gets aroused from burning people alive then rapes his wife with his fire boner.

[Dorian Martell]

He was a tyrant who did do some truly awful things, including rape, murder, abuse of power, spousal abuse, torture and more, but is it really his fault? He was insane, probably suffering from some form of paranoid schizophrenia, and God knows what else. Can we blame the truly insane for their actions?

No, the blame lies squarely on the author, GRRM, who penned the character and the story he was in. If it wasn't for George's brain, Aerys would have never existed. Maybe if another less violent author had written the story maybe Aerys would have been more like Tommen, but it wasn't.

[Gregor Clegane's head]

Himmler was also nuts , no one would say we can't judge him because of that.

[Erza Whitewalker]

It really depends on what mental illness he had. If he were really psychotic and unable to recognize right from wrong, then no. We don't have enough evidence from the eyewitnesses to know whether Aerys himself realized what he was doing was "evil". He did seem to relish inflicting pain on those at his mercy but he also believed that he would transform into a dragon if he set KL (himself included) aflame.

Even today psychiatrists will disagree on whether someone can be held legally responsible. (google Andrea Yates, first convicted of first(?) degree murder of her 5 children and then found not criminally responsible on appeal. Also recent case in Canada of Luka Magnotta - someone who clearly had mental health issues but was so organized in the murder and dismemberment of the victim, the clean-up, sending body parts to political parties, posting video of the crime online,and arranging his escape from the country, that a true psychotic break with reality was difficult to argue. Defense experts tried to paint him as psychotic but all actions in the aftermath of the actual murder point to pre-meditation and being in control of his faculties.)

[Aemond's Eye]

Just because you're paranoid does not mean that the world is not against you. At one point Tywin Lannister was hoping to betroth Jaime to Lysa Tully. Years later Hoster Tully betrothed Catelyn to Brandon Stark; Rickard Stark betrothed Lyanna to Robert Baratheon; Robert and Eddard Stark were wards of Jon Arryn. Paranoid or not, it's easy to understand why he'd think that a block of four - maybe even five - lord paramounts might be forming against him.

[still bill]

Yea kinda, I've had a couple friends who got schizophrenia late in life and while I know it's not there fault as much as I still love and forgive them the behavior is still, (crazy)

[prince_aegon]

aerys was tame compared to maegor the cruel (spelling*)

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Aerys wanted to burn the town to the ground. He strung people up and burned them alive. He was paranoid and mean, though I'll admit it seemed he got worse after his kidnapping. He was koo-koo for cocoa puffs...but anyone who commits those kinds of acts can be called crazy. He's still guilty and he definitely shouldn't have been in charge of people.

[Aemond's Eye]

Aerys wanted to burn the town to the ground. He strung people up and burned them alive. He was paranoid and mean, though I'll admit it seemed he got worse after his kidnapping. He was koo-koo for cocoa puffs...but anyone who commits those kinds of acts can be called crazy. He's still guilty and he definitely shouldn't have been in charge of people.

He wasn't doing any of that prior to Duskendale. The worst he can be accused of is being a poor governor and relying on Tywin to govern for him, but it's also possible that some of that - such as the passages in AWOIAF - are intentionally biased towards 'the new regime' containing Lannisters.

The way he handled the 'trial' of Rickard Stark, Brandon Stark and those who accompanied Brandon is a bit much to defend - but it's pretty easy to understand why he was a bit paranoid about Rickard Stark by that point, even without the crazy. And Brandon did storm to the Red Keep and demanded that Rhaegar "come out and die". He was guilty. You don't really walk away from walking into an imperial court screaming that you're going to kill the crown prince.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Brandon did storm to the Red Keep and demanded that Rhaegar "come out and die". He was guilty. You don't really walk away from walking into an imperial court screaming that you're going to kill the crown prince.

Brandon was understandably upset, believing the prince had kidnapped his sister right? Sure he could have handled it better, but wouldn't some time in the black cells or something be more appropriate and justified than hanging up his dad and roasting him like an iron wrapped turkey while making sure Brandon killed himself via leather "noose" if he tried to save him? I mean...that seems like evil king of crazy town to me.

And Jaime's description of him at the end was pretty horrible. Plus all the Hands he went through. And his treatment of his wife. And the whole not bathing and growing out his nails thing (which isn't mean, I suppose. Just whacky)

[LordStoneheart]

When the insane are killing people, yes, you really can blame them. The guy mentioned in this video certainly should be blamed for his crazy.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Ser Meryn got a stubborn look on his face. “Are you telling us not to obey the king?”
“The king is eight. Our first duty is to protect him, which includes protecting him from himself. Use that ugly thing you keep inside your helm. If Tommen wants you to saddle his horse, obey him. If he tells you to kill his horse, come to me.”

Too bad nobody took responsibility for Aerys. Too bad that good (or, not so good) men chose not to use their head. In my opinion, those who loved him and cared or him are mostly to blame along with those who profited from the situation, but he can't be completely absolved either.

[Aemond's Eye]

Brandon was understandably upset, believing the prince had kidnapped his sister right? Sure he could have handled it better, but wouldn't some time in the black cells or something be more appropriate and justified than hanging up his dad and roasting him like an iron wrapped turkey while making sure Brandon killed himself via leather "noose" if he tried to save him? I mean...that seems like evil king of crazy town to me.

And Jaime's description of him at the end was pretty horrible. Plus all the Hands he went through. And his treatment of his wife. And the whole not bathing and growing out his nails thing (which isn't mean, I suppose. Just whacky)

Actually, no. You don't just get held on remand for threatening to kill the crown prince. In Westerosi society there was no need for a trial either - his guilt wasn't in doubt.

Now, someone other than Aerys II might have sent him to The Wall rather than execute him, as he's the son of a LP. Or a politically savvy ruler could have used it to secure Ned and/or Benjen as 'guests' at the Red Keep - essentially ensuring that the Starks remain loyal to the crown. But execution for what Brandon did isn't over the top.

What was over the top was accepting Rickard's request for trial by combat. A trial would suggest that Brandon could be found innocent as a result - I'm guessing that, because Aerys II had decided his guilt already, Rickard was given a trial he could not win on purpose. It was sadistic and there's no defending that. He can either tell Rickard that his heir's guilt isn't in question, or allow Rickard a fair trial - essentially Rickard is executed for trying to save his son. As are Brandon's entourage.

My original post was pointing out that he wasn't doing this thing prior to Duskendale though. I think the forced marriage with his sister and subsequent miscarriages and stillbirths, and the loss of his cousin and friend, Stefon Baratheon, would already have sent Aerys' depressive mood swings into a worse place. After the trauma of Duskendale he descends into a mad man. I'm not defending the acts he carried out after Duskendale - but I don't think he was wrong to be paranoid about a possible alliance between four or five LPs.

[Pod The Impaler]

He was a tyrant who did do some truly awful things, including rape, murder, abuse of power, spousal abuse, torture and more, but is it really his fault? He was insane, probably suffering from some form of paranoid schizophrenia, and God knows what else. Can we blame the truly insane for their actions?

Can you blame a wasp for stinging you? Yes. Maybe not in a moral judgement sense, but you swat it just the same.