239JMFL34109 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 First, we don't know what exactly Illyrio can afford. If he had the hypothetical money for eight thousand unsullied, however, he could certainly afford to hire a few more free companies in addition to the Golden Company, but he didn't. But conquering Westeros solely by the force invading from Essos isn't the plan, though. Land with enough swords to look a serious, proper army, win a battle or two, conquer a castle or two, wave the red dragon proudly for everyone to see, and, hopefully, see lords of the realm flocking under his banner. Sadly, Jon Connington, Varys and Illyrio do not read this forum and hence are unaware of the established fact that the Targaryen claim to the Iron Throne is null and void. So I guess the poor sad fools are in for a huge disappointment. nobody cares about claim. get those who hate those in power to help you and etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I doubt Illyrio wanted Aegon to sweep into Westeros with an army of foreigners. It would make it all the harder for him to take the throne and win the support of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 nobody cares about claim. get those who hate those in power to help you and etc... And "getting them to help you" is different from "claim" how, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Because he ISN'T an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The silver dragon Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 First, we don't know what exactly Illyrio can afford. If he had the hypothetical money for eight thousand unsullied, however, he could certainly afford to hire a few more free companies in addition to the Golden Company, but he didn't. But conquering Westeros solely by the force invading from Essos isn't the plan, though. Land with enough swords to look a serious, proper army, win a battle or two, conquer a castle or two, wave the red dragon proudly for everyone to see, and, hopefully, see lords of the realm flocking under his banner. Sadly, Jon Connington, Varys and Illyrio do not read this forum and hence are unaware of the established fact that the Targaryen claim to the Iron Throne is null and void. So I guess the poor sad fools are in for a huge disappointment. :bs: the fuck?!??? where did you get that fanfic from. :shocked: if Viserys were ever able to gather an large army (unlikely) soundly beat Robert and Friend's in the Field with said army (even more unlikely). most of the lord's of westeros would bow to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 And "getting them to help you" is different from "claim" how, exactly? martels want revenge and the tyrells want power. if you can given them this they will back you. the claim is yours when then it's yours by conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yea the dothraki were supposed to invade with Viserys as the figurehead but it seems like a lot of people are agreeing that Westeros would unite against a slave or savage army from Essos and thus a united Westeros would easily take apart the dothraki. Then when Aegon lands, Westeros would already be united and he would have no chance. So, Illyrio's plan would backfire. The Dothraki would be curbstomped. But their remains would roam the countryside for years, creating social unrest everywhere. They simply wouldn't be able to get out of the country again. Which in turn would have the Westerosi looking for a savior to restablish the peace. Cue Aegon and the Golden Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The Dothraki would be curbstomped. But their remains would roam the countryside for years, creating social unrest everywhere. They simply wouldn't be able to get out of the country again. Which in turn would have the Westerosi looking for a savior to restablish the peace. Cue Aegon and the Golden Company. yeah no way the dothraki could do anything attack the vale or north or dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Battle of Qohor them a different story. 3000 vs 12000 and they didn't break. having that on any battlefield is a boonA defensive victory. Note that they're almost always seen acting as guards. They're totally loyal but that has its limits. Can they adapt? They're really only as good as the person commanding them. If the command is "protect the city," OK, fine. But fluid offensive warfare is different than that. If someone gives them a bad command, then what? They have their benefits but I don't think they're worth the price for this purpose.Using the Unsullied in Westeros is bad for PR, even if they don't rape and pillage. They're also not as well suited for offensive warfare or the Westetosi climate. Imagine them in a northern blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Because invading Westeros with an army of strange foreign slaves is just about the worst way to raise support for Aegon. It's not like 8000 unsullied are going to win you anything in Westeros either. You can just marry Aegon to literally any major lord and get the same amount of men and you don't need to spend all of your money doing it. Dorne was willing to ally with Dany when she had her Unsullied, so why not with Aegon? Aegon marries Arriane and gets the about 20,000 soldiers from Dorne. 10,000 Golden Company, 8,000 Unsullied, 20,000 Dornish. At the current time in Westeros an army of 38,000 would definitely be able to do some serious impact. Plus, Aegon believes in the Faith of the Seven right? So, if Cersei was to lose her trial or Tommen is proven to be a bastard, then maybe even the Faith Militant would back Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 That's about four years and a lot of development later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Rock Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 he has no reason to expect dragons. Aside from being related to Daenerys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Rock Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Dorne was willing to ally with Dany when she had her Unsullied, so why not with Aegon? Aegon marries Arriane and gets the about 20,000 soldiers from Dorne. 10,000 Golden Company, 8,000 Unsullied, 20,000 Dornish. At the current time in Westeros an army of 38,000 would definitely be able to do some serious impact. Plus, Aegon believes in the Faith of the Seven right? So, if Cersei was to lose her trial or Tommen is proven to be a bastard, then maybe even the Faith Militant would back Aegon. Dorne managed to muster up 15,000 for Rhaegar. Considering how they lost at the Trident and that they're rebelling against the crown, 10,000 seems more realistic. So, that's 10,000 sellswords, possibly 10,000 Dornish spears, and 8,000 Unsullied. 28,000 is still a considerable force. Let's not forget that he may have supporters in Westeros, so it's not unreasonable to think he'll have 30,000+. Problem is that Dorne's as useless as an ally as the North. The best way to take King's Landing is by sea. Dorne to King's Landing is a long march. Don't get me wrong, the best alliance he can hope for right now is with Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Aside from being related to Daenerys? nobody has any reason to expect the dragons to be born if we are talking going all the way back to in order to sell dany to robert to get unsullied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Rock Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 nobody has any reason to expect the dragons to be born if we are talking going all the way back to in order to sell dany to robert to get unsullied. What? I'm talking about like right before his landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Dorne was willing to ally with Dany when she had her Unsullied, so why not with Aegon? Aegon marries Arriane and gets the about 20,000 soldiers from Dorne. 10,000 Golden Company, 8,000 Unsullied, 20,000 Dornish. At the current time in Westeros an army of 38,000 would definitely be able to do some serious impact. Plus, Aegon believes in the Faith of the Seven right? So, if Cersei was to lose her trial or Tommen is proven to be a bastard, then maybe even the Faith Militant would back Aegon. They want her dragons not her unsullied, they are just a bonus. Also the War of the Five Kings happened which changes the scenario quite a bit from the one Varys and Illyrio were planning on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 They want her dragons not her unsullied, they are just a bonus. Also the War of the Five Kings happened which changes the scenario quite a bit from the one Varys and Illyrio were planning on. You're right that they wanted the dragons and probably wouldn't have reached out to her otherwise, but I guess the point was that they didn't care about having the stain of working with a "slave" army. Also, wasn't Varys expecting war? He must have known that Joffrey was Jaime's son and sooner or later Ned would figure out (especially with Littlefinger pushing Ned towards that conclusion). He couldn't have predicted that Renly and Balon would crown themselves but he must have known that there would be a war between Stannis, the Starks, and the Lannisters. So, his plan must have been made with the idea of some sort of war in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 You're right that they wanted the dragons and probably wouldn't have reached out to her otherwise, but I guess the point was that they didn't care about having the stain of working with a "slave" army. Also, wasn't Varys expecting war? He must have known that Joffrey was Jaime's son and sooner or later Ned would figure out (especially with Littlefinger pushing Ned towards that conclusion). He couldn't have predicted that Renly and Balon would crown themselves but he must have known that there would be a war between Stannis, the Starks, and the Lannisters. So, his plan must have been made with the idea of some sort of war in Westeros. Well they aren't Slaves by the time Doran reaches out, and Dany is on an anti slavery campaign in Slaver's Bay so at least that accusation goes away some what. They are still bad PR wise but Dany's history softens the blow a bit. The conversation between Varys and Illyrio that Arya over hears demonstrates that they weren't planning on a war happening so soon. Their plan was years in the making Jon Arryn dying and Ned getting named hand and investigating all happens pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Amey Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yea the dothraki were supposed to invade with Viserys as the figurehead but it seems like a lot of people are agreeing that Westeros would unite against a slave or savage army from Essos and thus a united Westeros would easily take apart the dothraki. Then when Aegon lands, Westeros would already be united and he would have no chance. So, Illyrio's plan would backfire. A the whole Dorthraki army would were to unite that would be 100K, each realm would quickly put 20K on the field that's about 100- 120K that is around equal match up. Keep in mind not all the westeroi will be fitted in Armor just the Knights, the Infintry would be the meat of all armies, and that meat would go right into the meat grinder Dorthraki rider. Even Robert B Respect their skills on horses. After their war is done they may unite, but they would be too weak to contend with anthing Aegon would brought to them. A defensive victory. Note that they're almost always seen acting as guards. They're totally loyal but that has its limits. Can they adapt? They're really only as good as the person commanding them. If the command is "protect the city," OK, fine. But fluid offensive warfare is different than that. If someone gives them a bad command, then what? They have their benefits but I don't think they're worth the price for this purpose.Using the Unsullied in Westeros is bad for PR, even if they don't rape and pillage. They're also not as well suited for offensive warfare or the Westetosi climate. Imagine them in a northern blizzard.Can they Adept: of course they can, if they can be taught westeroi languages they can learn their sword play and tactic, a big boon for them is Sir Barritan SelmyBad PR: coming from people who usurped them, I dont think that would be the least of her worries.This is my problem as well. Dany would seem like the person to send them north even if would kill them. that is why I'm hoping she meet Aegon soon. If he know strategy like i think he does, he would be quick to tell her that is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 A the whole Dorthraki army would were to unite that would be 100K, each realm would quickly put 20K on the field that's about 100- 120K that is around equal match up. Keep in mind not all the westeroi will be fitted in Armor just the Knights, the Infintry would be the meat of all armies, and that meat would go right into the meat grinder Dorthraki rider. Even Robert B Respect their skills on horses. After their war is done they may unite, but they would be too weak to contend with anthing Aegon would brought to them. Drogo's khalasar was only 40k and he was only willing to give Viserys 10k. Stannis the Mannis would have crushed all the Dothraki before any of them set foot on Westeros. Personally I just think the whole Dothraki plan was a terrible idea. Plus, you are wasting Dany as a marriage candidate. Illyrio is smart enough to know that there was a very little chance Drogo would ever bestir himself to invade Westeros and if he did, even less of a chance that it would be successful, so I just don't know why Ilyrio basically wasted Dany. Would have made a lot more sense to marry Dany to maybe Willias Tyrell or Quentyn and then marry Aegon to Margaery or Arriane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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