RedShirt47 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think Trystane will replace Arianne and Dany replaces Aegon. So the Dorne - Targ marriage is Tryst - Dany instead of Arianne - Aegon.Varys will support Dany in her claim for the throne. This is a much simpler version of the the Targ restoration to the IT. There is no need to have complicated baby smuggling stories or Blackfyre history. Just like with Shae and Tysha, it makes much more sense to go with the character who has been on screen for years than introduce a new character which needs lot of exposition and still won't have the audience investment of the existing character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think Trystane will replace Arianne and Dany replaces Aegon. So the Dorne - Targ marriage is Tryst - Dany instead of Arianne - Aegon. Varys will support Dany in her claim for the throne. This is a much simpler version of the the Targ restoration to the IT. There is no need to have complicated baby smuggling stories or Blackfyre history. Just like with Shae and Tysha, it makes much more sense to go with the character who has been on screen for years than introduce a new character which needs lot of exposition and still won't have the audience investment of the existing character. How is marrying her off to Khal Drogo the best way to get her on the throne? Works for book Varys since he was just getting her out of the way for Aegon, but for show Varys with no Aegon, it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Trystane in drag is going to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mingolla Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 How is marrying her off to Khal Drogo the best way to get her on the throne? Works for book Varys since he was just getting her out of the way for Aegon, but for show Varys with no Aegon, it makes no sense. That is not true at all. While Varys had always Aegon as the endgame, he did not wanted to get rid of Viserys and Dany. In contrary he wanted to use them and Dothrakis first to invade Westeros. Later after Viserys died and Dany got dragons, he adjusted his plan and wanted to get Aegon and Dany married. For show Varys if he is a Targaryen loyalist it works since initially Dany was expandable, her purpose was to give Viserys an army. Varys could not predict Viserys will die and his meek sister Dany will hatch dragons. Dornish part i guess initially one of Oberyn daughters was supposed to marry Viserys, now it will be Trystane who will be used for Targaryen/Dorne alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 That is not true at all. While Varys had always Aegon as the endgame, he did not wanted to get rid of Viserys and Dany. In contrary he wanted to use them and Dothrakis first to invade Westeros. Later after Viserys died and Dany got dragons, he adjusted his plan and wanted to get Aegon and Dany married. For show Varys if he is a Targaryen loyalist it works since initially Dany was expandable, her purpose was to give Viserys an army. Varys could not predict Viserys will die and his meek sister Dany will hatch dragons. Dornish part i guess initially one of Oberyn daughters was supposed to marry Viserys, now it will be Trystane who will be used for Targaryen/Dorne alliance.Illyrio admitted that they thought Dany would die on the dothraki sea in the books. You can't convince me that a guy who has been planning for 17 years for a Targaryen to get back on the throne would let both his aces up his sleeve to leave with a dothraki horde. It makes no sense. The Dothraki would never be able to take the 7k and the best case was that they get enough ships to cross and Narrow Sea and then the royal fleet or some other fleet sinks them all. Plus imagine how would a woman married to a raping savage be loved by millions in Westeros? She wouldn't be. She wouldn't get any allies and they would all die. You have to have some sort of Aegon in the show or Varys' whole plan doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 That is not true at all. While Varys had always Aegon as the endgame, he did not wanted to get rid of Viserys and Dany. In contrary he wanted to use them and Dothrakis first to invade Westeros. Later after Viserys died and Dany got dragons, he adjusted his plan and wanted to get Aegon and Dany married. For show Varys if he is a Targaryen loyalist it works since initially Dany was expandable, her purpose was to give Viserys an army. Varys could not predict Viserys will die and his meek sister Dany will hatch dragons. Dornish part i guess initially one of Oberyn daughters was supposed to marry Viserys, now it will be Trystane who will be used for Targaryen/Dorne alliance.Illyrio admitted that they thought Dany would die on the dothraki sea in the books. You can't convince me that a guy who has been planning for 17 years for a Targaryen to get back on the throne would let both his aces up his sleeve to leave with a dothraki horde. It makes no sense. The Dothraki would never be able to take the 7k and the best case was that they get enough ships to cross and Narrow Sea and then the royal fleet or some other fleet sinks them all. Plus imagine how would a woman married to a raping savage be loved by millions in Westeros? She wouldn't be. She wouldn't get any allies and they would all die. You have to have some sort of Aegon in the show or Varys' whole plan doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Illyrio admitted that they thought Dany would die on the dothraki sea in the books. You can't convince me that a guy who has been planning for 17 years for a Targaryen to get back on the throne would let both his aces up his sleeve to leave with a dothraki horde. It makes no sense. The Dothraki would never be able to take the 7k and the best case was that they get enough ships to cross and Narrow Sea and then the royal fleet or some other fleet sinks them all. Plus imagine how would a woman married to a raping savage be loved by millions in Westeros? She wouldn't be. She wouldn't get any allies and they would all die. You have to have some sort of Aegon in the show or Varys' whole plan doesn't work They still needed her to fulfil a purpose: to bring the Dothrakis to their cause. Once she did that, she could go and die for what they care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShirt47 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 How is marrying her off to Khal Drogo the best way to get her on the throne? Works for book Varys since he was just getting her out of the way for Aegon, but for show Varys with no Aegon, it makes no sense. Because that's how it was in the books. They couldn't not have her marry Drogo, probably when they were adapting season 1 they had no idea how they would adapt season 5, if Aegon would be there or not. Much like how they had to have Tyrion kill Shae because that's what happened in the books. They will just have to fudge this some how. Tyrion killing Shae made little sense on the show because they seemed to really be in love on the tv show but Shae died in the books and had to die on the show. I don't think it make no sense but it makes less sense. It can be fudged enough to work for tv. The viewers won't care about such a minor plot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 They still needed her to fulfil a purpose: to bring the Dothrakis to their cause. Once she did that, she could go and die for what they care.She can't go and die in this scenario since she is there end game. Varys is a very patient man. He's waited 17 years to get a Targaryen on the throne and are we supposed to believe that he just lets the last two Targaryens leave with a savage army? We're in the show atmosphere now so there no Aegon. Best possible case scenario is that Drogo and Dany come back after Vaes Dothrak and land on Westeros with 40k horse riders. That is very unlikely but let's say it happens. How would Dany be loved by millions? She just brought a slaving and raping army into enemy territory. No one will like her. No one has any reason to join her either since she doesn't have any noble people to wed with her other than Jorah. If khal drogo somehow dies, the Dothraki would abandon Dany just like they did in the Dothraki sea. They would want to take her back to Vaes Dothrak and I don't think they would be too happy with her marrying some other Westerosi lord. Also, Varys is always talking about doing what's best for the realm. The realm and the smallfolk will never forget the queen who brought nothing but destruction to there land. And this is all the best case scenario. Most likely she would die or end up stuck in Vaes dothrak for the rest of her life. So, we need Varys to have another plan up his sleeve or his whole character wouldn't make sense. Hoping that Trystane is truly Aegon and Varys and Doran have been working together for some time. I think they both have similar personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mingolla Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Illyrio admitted that they thought Dany would die on the dothraki sea in the books. You can't convince me that a guy who has been planning for 17 years for a Targaryen to get back on the throne would let both his aces up his sleeve to leave with a dothraki horde. It makes no sense. The Dothraki would never be able to take the 7k and the best case was that they get enough ships to cross and Narrow Sea and then the royal fleet or some other fleet sinks them all. Plus imagine how would a woman married to a raping savage be loved by millions in Westeros? She wouldn't be. She wouldn't get any allies and they would all die. You have to have some sort of Aegon in the show or Varys' whole plan doesn't work It is true Viserys+Dothraki horde with or without Dany would not be particulary good plan, but that would not be a complete plan. There still would be Golden Company and those houses in Westeros which were better off under Targaryen rule. Also all of this would start only after Westeros is teared apart by civil war. Should be enough for good try. Keep in mind Varys is only a man and not a superhero with flawless masterplans with 100% chance of success. Also if he is a Targaryen loyalist on the show with such plan, it is fair to say "for good of the Realm" is just a ruse and he does not give a shit what population of Westeros think about it. It is a feudalism afterall, a public opinion does not matter. Or he could honestly think after the experience with the Baratheon-Lannister rule that a stabil Targaryen rule would be better for the Realm in the long term. But all those possible theories only matter for miniscule amount of audience. I am not sure if D+D will even bother to explain Varys original plan. I just have feeling based on their methods of streamlining things and on the leaks, that Varys support of Dany will be sincere and that there will be no Aegon or his substitute in form of Trystane. They will just let Dany invade faster and she will one to fill an emty space in the story left by missing Aegon. That is why there will be no Battle of Mereen and Tyrion and Jorah will be with her already at the end of season 5 as leaked pictures show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShirt47 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 In Season 1 Robert seemed pretty scared of a Dothraki invasion, his chat with Cersei using his fist to represent one army and his spread fingers to represent five armies - showing how one army can be more powerful than five.He sent assassins to kill Dany as he feared her so much. I think the original plan (on tv version) was to:Marry Dany off in exchange for a Dothraki army for Viserys.Viserys invades (with Golden Company, backing from loyal Targ houses etc).Viserys gets the crown. I don't see an issue with having Dany married off and out of the picture with their original plan. Viserys is plan A. Didn't Illyrio try to persuade Viserys to stay in Pentos? But a lot has changed since then. Viserys is dead. Drogo is dead. Dany has Dragons, unsullied, seconds sons and Meereen's ships. To the book readers out there this makes little sense I agree, but to tv viewers it's a workable scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Because that's how it was in the books. They couldn't not have her marry Drogo, probably when they were adapting season 1 they had no idea how they would adapt season 5, if Aegon would be there or not. Much like how they had to have Tyrion kill Shae because that's what happened in the books. They will just have to fudge this some how. Tyrion killing Shae made little sense on the show because they seemed to really be in love on the tv show but Shae died in the books and had to die on the show. I don't think it make no sense but it makes less sense. It can be fudged enough to work for tv. The viewers won't care about such a minor plot point. What? How does it not make sense? If anything it makes more sense because they were in love. Shae went mad with jealousy because she thought Tyrion was pushing her aside for Sansa, she thinks Tyrion is the one behind Varys offering her a way out of Westeros to go along with Tyrion repeatedly rejecting her advances sometimes in rather a rude way(for her own protection). It drove her to the point where she wanted to do anything to hurt him(for breaking her heart) and Sansa for that matter. On the otherside not only does Tyrion have to deal with the humilation of watching Shae speak lie after lie about him in a throne room full of ppl. But then he goes on to find her uttering the very phase she embarrased him with earlier(my lion), in the bed of his father of all ppl. The very man who was trying to take away his freedom(even life), and repeatedly threatned him with killing Shae for being with him. She went mad with jealousy and he went mad with rage, sounds like a tragic love story to me lol. I think it made complete sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 In Season 1 Robert seemed pretty scared of a Dothraki invasion, his chat with Cersei using his fist to represent one army and his spread fingers to represent five armies - showing how one army can be more powerful than five. He sent assassins to kill Dany as he feared her so much. Agreed, and like someone else eluded to earlier it's not just the Dothraki army he fears alone. He's also very worried about the houses that are still secretely loyal to the Targaryens and would undoubtedly join their side during an invasion. "There are still those in the seven kigndoms who call me Usurper, the Targaryen boy crosses with a Dothaki horde at his back, the scum will join him." Robert may be a drunken fool, but he knows the art of war as well as anyone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahB1hoPP4lQ Notice even Ned Stark doesn't deny houses would turn against Robert, he simply bypasses that point and says, "He will not pass and if by chance he does, we'll throw him back into the sea." Btw, the whole time Robert is going off about the Targaryens Ned's looking at him like, "Damn Targaryens make this dude wanna get blood drunk. If he finds out about Jon, I'm so fucked!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShirt47 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 What? How does it not make sense? If anything it makes more sense because they were in love. Shae went mad with jealousy because she thought Tyrion was pushing her aside for Sansa, she thinks Tyrion is the one behind Varys offering her a way out of Westeros to go along with Tyrion repeatedly rejecting her advances sometimes in rather a rude way(for her own protection). It drove her to the point where she wanted to do anything to hurt him(for breaking her heart) and Sansa for that matter. On the otherside not only does Tyrion have to deal with the humilation of watching Shae speak lie after lie about him in a throne room full of ppl. But then he goes on to find her uttering the very phase she embarrased him with earlier(my lion), in the bed of his father of all ppl. The very man who was trying to take away his freedom(even life), and repeatedly threatned him with killing Shae for being with him. She went mad with jealousy and he went mad with rage, sounds like a tragic love story to me lol. I think it made complete sense. What makes less sense (than the books) is Shae being in the bed at all. It's not really explained on the show. She's supposed to love Tyrion but feels hurt by him so testifies at his trial but ending up in Tywin's bed seemed odd to me. In the books she's a more a power hungry whore and ending up there seemed reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow282 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Illyrio admitted that they thought Dany would die on the dothraki sea in the books. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 What makes less sense (than the books) is Shae being in the bed at all. It's not really explained on the show. She's supposed to love Tyrion but feels hurt by him so testifies at his trial but ending up in Tywin's bed seemed odd to me. In the books she's a more a power hungry whore and ending up there seemed reasonable. It may not have totally been up to her. If Tywin Lannister wants some of that pie, she's gonna have to serve it for him lol. Also Tywin probably offered her security she didn't have many options left in KL after testifying against Tyrion. Cersei was just as likely to have her killed in order to silence her forever, as she was to pay her off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Storm Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Where? Don't know the exact quote. I got the idea from this fourm: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/124050-what-was-illyrio-expecting-of-dany-in-the-dothraki-sea/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Where? Don't know the exact quote. I got the idea from this fourm: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/124050-what-was-illyrio-expecting-of-dany-in-the-dothraki-sea/ "Daenerys was half a child when she came to me, yet fairer even than my second wife, so lovely I was tempted to claim her for myself. Such a fearful, furtive thing, however, I knew I should get no joy from coupling with her. Instead I summoned a bed-warmer and fucked her vigorously until the madness passed. If truth be told, I did not think Daenerys would survive for long amongst the horselords." ADWD-Tyrion POV-Chapter 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow282 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 "Daenerys was half a child when she came to me, yet fairer even than my second wife, so lovely I was tempted to claim her for myself. Such a fearful, furtive thing, however, I knew I should get no joy from coupling with her. Instead I summoned a bed-warmer and fucked her vigorously until the madness passed. If truth be told, I did not think Daenerys would survive for long amongst the horselords." ADWD-Tyrion POV-Chapter 5 That, to me, doesn't make sense. As long as Drogo was alive Dany wasn't in any danger. Nobody was going to kill the wife of an incredibly powerful Khal. And as soon as Drogo died, Dany still wasn't in any danger. She would have been dragged back to be a crone, but nobody would have killed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel to conform Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I like this theory. Sign me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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