NoneofYourBiz Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Right. So because he sued Chris Kyle's widow, suddenly Chris Kyle's lie becomes "well, I wasn't there." and "I'll reserve judgement". Meanwhile, people start to say Jesse Ventura is not a REAL Navy SEAL, to the point where people that hate him have to defend him. http://sofrep.com/36086/truth-jesse-venturas-navy-seal-status/ Oh and in just in case there is ANY doubt that Chris Kyle said he punched Jesse Ventura, here he is on Bill O'Reilly: http://www.mofopolitics.com/2012/01/05/navy-seal-chris-kyle-tells-bill-oreilly-why-he-punched-jesse-ventura-in-the-face/Well I wasn't there, so I'll reserve judgement. It's not as if my judgement affects anything anyway, it's just my personal view. I have heard second, third, fourth, 100th hand stories about what happened and I'm not going to make a judgement based on conflicting stories and rumors. I don't much care either way. Their dispute is not why he was shunned. Jesse won his case, although I believe it cost his reputation more than any stories Chris Kyle told ever could have.The "not a SEAL" thing in my experience is something stated by civilians who don't understand what UDT is.. As you noted, even Brandon Webb says they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 @Relic It is catchy and it involves "Fuck". I would not think much of it. "America, fuck yeah!" is supposed to be semi-ironic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 There were lots of witnesses but not a lot of matching stories. Given that alcohol was likely freely flowing that night, it's not terribly surprising. There was an altercation of some sorts and the details of it depend on the teller.Ventura was shunned by the SEAL community not because they care who may have or may have not punched who. They shunned him for how he handled it.Given how hard libel is to prove in the US, there was definitely a stronger case than "oh there were a lot of drunk people, no one remembers exactly what happened" Ventura sued because of what Kyle claimed he said, not because a man in his 30s can outfight a man in his 60s. His statement The event this man spoke of never happened. I have been to McP's many times since leaving the Navy. I was never there alone. I was always accompanied by other people. If this happened 6 years ago, someone would have known of it before now. Certainly in the UDT/SEAL community it would have been known. This has to be news to all of us. I have always opposed the war in Iraq but I have never spoken or wished any ill will towards the soldiers. My heart aches that soldiers have died or been wounded because this war should never have taken place. I am perplexed over the agenda this man has and why a fellow Navy Seal [sic] would tell a lie about an event that never happened. says that he never wished any ill will towards the soldiers, not that he could have totally kicked Kyle's ass. Anyway, the publicity from his spot's the Opie and Anthony Show and the O'Reilly factor probably earned Kyle's estate far more than the 1.8 million it eventually paid out. I'm tired of defending Ventura, a terrible former governor and 9/11 truther, but there is 0 doubt in my mind that Kyle was the party in the wrong here. Also, to add to his list of lies: Kyle claimed that he found WMDs in Iraq in his book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Yeah, the thing is that at the time, nobody thought Ventura would win because it's such a hard kind of case to prove. That fact that he did win, no question, is as close to proof as you can get that it happened the way Ventura claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 It is catchy and it involves "Fuck". I would not think much of it. It's the underlining thought process behind it. It IS supposed to be ironic but many people actually DO think along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder Sister Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I was actually being sarcastic when I asked if Kyle had also claimed to have beaten up Ace Ventura. I thought this was a given, since Ace Ventura is not actually a real person. Sorry, thread. You deserve better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I was actually being sarcastic when I asked if Kyle had also claimed to have beaten up Ace Ventura. I thought this was a given, since Ace Ventura is not actually a real person. Sorry, thread. You deserve better.My bad. I was skimming through and did not read carefully. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Given how hard libel is to prove in the US, there was definitely a stronger case than "oh there were a lot of drunk people, no one remembers exactly what happened.I did not say that was the case presented. I said that I have heard many conflicting stories and that was not surprising given that the drink was likely freely flowing, not that that was any sort of defense presented at trial. Truthfully I did not follow the trial but remember reading that people did testify in support of his story but that the stories were inconsistent. Also, to add to his list of lies: Kyle claimed that he found WMDs in Iraq in his book.Did you read his book? I don't recall him saying that quite exactly. i'll find the exact quote.Edited to add the quote from the book I think that is being referred to:"At another location we found barrels of chemical material that was intended for use as biochemical weapons. Everyone talks about there being no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but they seem to be referring to completed nuclear bombs, not the many deadly chemical weapons or precursors that Saddam had stockpiled."Is it untrue that such things were found in Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Why would it be ironic to me? Yes, I know what you are implying but that is your hang up, not mine.It's your standard fall back position. The argument your presenting hits a dead end and you the claim to have "insider knowledge" in this case from a "SEAL you know". Given the above your earlier post is frankly baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's your standard fall back position. The argument your presenting hits a dead end and you the claim to have "insider knowledge" in this case from a "SEAL you know". Given the above your earlier post is frankly baffling.What dead end? I never claimed to have "insider information". If I had insider information of any importance I certainly wouldn't post it it on the internet. Nothing I have said cannot be found elsewhere. I said, here and elsewhere, that I work with former SEALs and other SOF guys. I work for a defense contractor so this is not uncommon or special. I live in a community where many of them are stationed. I would venture to say everyone in this community knows a SEAL or two or three. It's hard to be here for any length of time and not know one. It is also not uncommon or special. My significant other is a retired SEAL. My ex husband is retired Army; I am a former military spouse. I manage CSR for my company and as such work with many military charities and therefore attend many events on behalf of my company attended by Gold Star families, wounded warriors and retired vets. Just this weekend I attended and event for a foundation started by a wounded SEAL, and sat next to the guest speaker, a former Ranger that sustained burns over 85 percent of his body. So yes, I feel as if I can speak to what is being said in the military community that I am or have been a part of in various ways. I am not special or privy to insider information. I am privy to conversations that occur around me and entitled to speak from my own experiences just as anyone else is. I don't know why it bothers you so.Again, do you have anything to add to the conversation other than your personal attacks on me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Edited to add the quote from the book I think that is being referred to:"At another location we found barrels of chemical material that was intended for use as biochemical weapons. Everyone talks about there being no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but they seem to be referring to completed nuclear bombs, not the many deadly chemical weapons or precursors that Saddam had stockpiled."Is it untrue that such things were found in Iraq?Well, he sort of shows himself to be pretty ignorant there. Yes there were some weapons found in Iraq, chemical weapons decades old in rusty barrels and such, and some ground troops were exposed to mustard gas. This "stockpile" was not what the Bush administration claimed Iraq had in terms of WMDs. Not even close to it. No one expected to find nukes, but they did expect a sophisticated manufacturing program and something like 500 metric tons of Shit like sarin gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Well, he sort of shows himself to be pretty ignorant there. Yes there were some weapons found in Iraq, chemical weapons decades old in rusty barrels and such, and some ground troops were exposed to mustard gas. This "stockpile" was not what the Bush administration claimed Iraq had in terms of WMDs. Not even close to it. No one expected to find nukes, but they did expect a sophisticated manufacturing program and something like 500 metric tons of Shit like sarin gas.I don't entirely disagree. However claiming that "Chris Kyle lied about finding WMD" is a bit inflated of a statement, given what he actually said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I don't entirely disagree. However claiming that "Chris Kyle lied about finding WMD" is a bit inflated of a statement, given what he actually said.Again, less a lie and more of a stupid boast. Also, did he PERSONALLY find anything, or if his "we" meant in a general sense, as in "we the invading force" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Again, less a lie and more of a stupid boast. Also, did he PERSONALLY find anything, or if his "we" meant in a general sense, as in "we the invading force" .Why is it a stupid boast? He is not boasting in the book, or acting if it was found because of his super specialness. It's a few sentences in a chapter in which he describes some of his various experiences in Iraq. He is certainly not the only service member to tell of such a find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Why is it a stupid boast? He is not boasting in the book, or acting if it was found because of his super specialness. It's a few sentences in a chapter in which he describes some of his various experiences in Iraq. He is certainly not the only service member to tell of such a find.? Did you not read what I wrote? It's stupid because the USA did not find any significant WMDs. His statement is an embellishment. The term "we found" is ambiguous in this context, as well. Did HE don a hazmat suit and search a suspected location, thus finding some leaky barrels of old ass mustard gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 ? Did you not read what I wrote? It's stupid because the USA did not find any significant WMDs. His is an embellishment. The term "we found" is ambiguous in this context, as well. Did HE don a hazmat suit and search a suspected location, thus finding some leaky barrels of old ass mustard gas?Did you not read what I wrote, or what he wrote? And before we go on, it's just a conversation on a forum, Relic. We don't have to be hostile even if we disagree.Chris Kyle is not ambiguous in his context if you read what what he said in his book. I have the Kindle version and taking a few lines out of a chapter and saying "OMG He said he found WMDS what a liar pants on fire" is a bit dramatic. How can you write about him being ambiguous in this context when you have not read the lines in the context of the chapter? Don't you think you should do that before speculating that he was boasting or lying without reading what he said?He states very clearly that they found chemical material. That's it. He's not the only soldier who tells of his unit coming across such things, the NYT wrote a whole piece on troops finding stuff like this. In his exact quote, he clearly says that he thought that when people said there were no WMDs they meant finished, usable material, not chemicals and precursors. I think he is correct in that assumption, don't you? He goes on to say that they found old chemical stockpiles, which we know were found in Iraq. I don't see the lie, or the boast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 This article explores the propaganda of the movie and the aggrandization of Chris Kyle: https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words 'American Sniper' is dangerous propaganda that sanitizes a mass killer & rewrites the Iraq war. While the glorification of American psycho sniper Chris Kyle on the big screen is atrocious, the movie's rewriting of the US destruction of Iraq and racist portrayal of Arabs is worse and far more dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crixus Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 snip I also know that 70% of Americans don't own passports and have ZERO world perspective. Which makes for a pretty ignorant, and vocal, population. Seriously? Is this true? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egalitarianism Always Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Deb, be serious if chemicals that make up nerve agents and gas and the chemical precursors were found that would be finding WMDs. That discovery would have been ALL OVER the MAINSTREAM media because that was the WHOLE pretext for the Iraq war being started. No bigger scoop than PROVING that PROOF. But that justification never appeared and we know why. Is Chris Kyle a trained chemist? The answer is NO. He knows what chemicals make up nerve agents and gas? he knows what chemicals make a precursor? the answer is NO, he was a silly propagandist liar, a total bullshit artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder Sister Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Seriously? Is this true? Wow.If you think about the logistics of travel in the US alone, this shouldn't really surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.