If the Wall falls what of the North?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

If there was enough warning, than the Manderly's could scrape together a fleet in time to evacuate a good chunk of the population.

Hell, no. Because:

50 ships or whatever can ship maybe 5,000 people beyond their crew and that's very generous. Which leaves 9,995,000 Northmen to die and rise as wights. Give or take.

Or let's have a year for the evacuation. Let's say one trip per month (more like one every two but whatever). That leaves 9,940,000 Northmen to die.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

Daenarys will be the South's salvation, maybe.

No, she will be the zombie queen (I hope!).

[Ser Patroclo]

Hell, no. Because:

But they might still be able to save the gold, silver and other treasures.

How do they say? Troy is lost, but Rome can be founded.

[Cladinator]

If The Wall falls (and I think it will) it'll allow the White Walkers to continue south into the rest of Westeros.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

But they might still be able to save the gold, silver and other treasures.

How do they say? Troy is lost, but Rome can be founded.

Nothing like 99.x% of a population wiped out to say "successful escape"...

[Ser Patroclo]

Nothing like 99.x% of a population wiped wealth saved out to say "successful escape"...

Fixed it :cool4:

eta: jk :laugh:

[Dornishwoman's Husband]

When the Wall falls, all the northern peasants will start taking a refuge to the south, until there comes a real army that can stop the army of wights and white walkers. The closest sanctuary would be the White Harbor. Their walls could make some stand against the army of the dead.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

When the Wall falls, all the northern peasants will start taking a refuge to the south, until there comes a real army that can stop the army of wights and white walkers. The closest sanctuary would be the White Harbor. Their walls could make some stand against the army of the dead.

...fitting 10 millions in a city meant for 50,000?

[chrisdaw]

Why does everyone think the Others will stop their advance at the Neck? The Riverlands are a mass grave waiting to be recruited by the Others.

I am assuming Westeros will get itself together to make a stand at the trident.

[Ser Patroclo]

Why does everyone think the Others will stop their advance at the Neck? The Riverlands are a mass grave waiting to be recruited by the Others.

It probably has to do with the fact Daenerys dreamt of fighting on the Trident.. which is not that much far away from the Neck anyway.

ETA:

Jon dreamt of fighting on the wall, but the consensus is that for the WW threat to be (politically? socially? plot-wise?) significant they must succeed in invading the north.

[Free Northman Reborn]

It probably has to do with the fact Daenerys dreamt of fighting on the Trident.. which is not that much far away from the Neck anyway.

ETA:

Jon dreamt of fighting on the wall, but the consensus is that for the WW threat to be (politically? socially? plot-wise?) significant they must succeed in invading the north.

The error is to think that for the Others to invade the South, they must first have anihilated the North. Far more likely, is that the Others will go where they can raise the largest undead armies. And in the more densely populated South, that is a far quicker process. Once the magic of the Wall falls, what stops the Others from just going straight into the heart of the South rather than hanging around in the sparsely populated North?

They don't rely on a conventional army with conventional logistical constraints. They can just infiltrate straight into the South and raise their massive army at source, rather than marching a slow moving undead host (by night only) over thousands of miles of empty Northern territory, only to have it fall dead again each sunrise, ready to be burned by roving Northern defenders as the corpses lie on the road, waiting for night to fall again.

There is therefore no requirement (or logic) for the Others to first try and devestate the North before heading South. Strategically going directly into the South makes more sense, while they wait for the North to weaken through hunger, to be conquered once the South has been overrun. Especially if the North has weirwood protection from the Old Gods, which the South utterly lacks.

[Rippounet]

It probably has to do with the fact Daenerys dreamt of fighting on the Trident.. which is not that much far away from the Neck anyway.

ETA:

Jon dreamt of fighting on the wall, but the consensus is that for the WW threat to be (politically? socially? plot-wise?) significant they must succeed in invading the north.

Invading yes, but since we don't know what the Others want, we can't say for certain that they will start a genocide. In fact, given what we know, they need/want humans to reproduce and provide them with babies to be turned.

Many people assume the Others coming means everyone will die. I don't think it'll be that bad. Yes, many people will die, but mostly those who attempt actual resistance.

I tend to think of the Others as leaders with an army, conquering territory for their own purposes. They will invade the North and crush resistance (or at least, most of it), then proceed south. Eventually a great battle will take place south of the Neck between Ice and Fire, darkness and light.

The only real question to me is who will be on each side. Jon might unite the Stark and Targaryan houses eventually (well, they already are, since he exists), but before that, we might learn that the Starks have or had a special relationship with the Others.

Edit: nice simultaneous posting, Free Northman Reborn.

[The Wolves]

The North is vast and winter is just beginning in the North so people have taken shelter unless the Others are going to go search people out I don't think they will actually do much harm to the Northern population.

[Ser Patroclo]

...snip...

...snip...

Ok, but neither of these are related with the answer I gave, which was framed under the assumption that this common misconception is due

to the belief that someone will 'stop' them before they reach the South.

Moreover, to answer your points, the best strategy they can adopt depends on their abilities/goals, which are unknown so far:

- how many WW are required to control/raise K wights?

- how far away can they be to control/raise a wight?

- do the WW move with the Winter, or does the Winter move with them?

- are they somewhat constrained to stay within the boundaries of such 'winter' delimited area?

- for what purpose are they truly collecting an army of wights?

- can their wights act as intermediaries to raise more wights?

Depending on the answer, it might make more or less sense to scatter around North while simultaneously trying to collect the largest number of souls.

It might also be that the density of population is higher down in the south, but that doesn't mean it's the best - or simply a viable - option for them.

ETA:

Another reason why the 'neck' is important is because 'after' the WW reach the south and scatter around the continent, it becomes incredibly difficult for a 'rescue' army such that of Daenerys to save the day. The Dragons are great, but if the enemies are spread all around Westeros instead of concentrated in a single place, it will take eons to wipe them out.

[TimJames]

Hell, no. Because:

I said a good chunk. Obviously all the people in Umbar and Karstark lands are screwed. But not everyone would flee through White Harbor.

The people in Bear Island and Skagos need not flee at all; the Others can't cross water and neither can the weights.

Everyone south of Torren's Square could (in the absence of a White Harbor fleet) follow the KingsRoad south and hide behind The Neck.

If the Craggoman are armed with obsidian than they could hold those lands long enough for The Neck Wall to be built.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

ETA:

Another reason why the 'neck' is important is because 'after' the WW reach the south and scatter around the continent, it becomes incredibly difficult for a 'rescue' army such that of Daenerys to save the day. The Dragons are great, but if the enemies are spread all around Westeros instead of concentrated in a single place, it will take eons to wipe them out.

The Neck is damn big, if you eschew the road. It can't be blocked.

I said a good chunk. Obviously all the people in Umbar and Karstark lands are screwed. But not everyone would flee through White Harbor.

The people in Bear Island and Skagos need not flee at all; the Others can't cross water and neither can the weights.

Everyone south of Torren's Square could (in the absence of a White Harbor fleet) follow the KingsRoad south and hide behind The Neck.

If the Craggoman are armed with obsidian than they could hold those lands long enough for The Neck Wall to be built.

Even if that would be true, they couldn't flee. Modern countries are stretched thin accomodating for a small percentage of their population. With medieval technology, no way in hell.

If they even make it a 100 miles from home.

[TimJames]

The Neck is damn big, if you eschew the road. It can't be blocked.

Even if that would be true, they couldn't flee. Modern countries are stretched thin accomodating for a small percentage of their population. With medieval technology, no way in hell.

If they even make it a 100 miles from home.

Why wouldn't they be able to? The Lord of the Manor won't be stopping them; he'll probably have already fled. Assuming the smallfolk have two feet and a sense of self preservation, many of them should be able to follow the KingsRoad down to The Neck.

[Rippounet]

Ok, but neither of these are related with the answer I gave, which was framed under the assumption that this common misconception is due to the belief that someone will 'stop' them before they reach the South.

Yes, I should have made it clear that I wasn't really answering your point, but rather, this idea/consensus you mentioned that the North is screwed because of the Others.

Another reason why the 'neck' is important is because 'after' the WW reach the south and scatter around the continent, it becomes incredibly difficult for a 'rescue' army such that of Daenerys to save the day. The Dragons are great, but if the enemies are spread all around Westeros instead of concentrated in a single place, it will take eons to wipe them out.

I for myself believe there are actually very few "true Others" and that killing those will pretty much end them as a major threat. I think they are a dying race, and that their moving south is a desperate attempt.

In fact, I just realized that we already know what the Others want: babies to turn. Crazy thought: what if they wanted nothing (or not much) more?

[Ser Patroclo]

The Neck is damn big, if you eschew the road. It can't be blocked.

True, but after that there are the Twins and the Trident.

The rivers are not going to be easier to trespass for them than they were for Robb.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Why wouldn't they be able to? The Lord of the Manor won't be stopping them; he'll probably have already fled. Assuming the smallfolk have two feet and a sense of self preservation, many of them should be able to follow the KingsRoad down to The Neck.

Food. And cold. But mostly food.

True, but after that there are the Twins and the Trident.

The rivers are not going to be easier to trespass for them than they were for Robb.

So what? Apart from us not knowing whether the Others themselves are hindered by rivers, their wights don't need to get to Riverrun in time. They can take the long way on the eastern side.