Rattenhoofd Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi guys, I'm new to the forums, so I apologise if this theory was posted already, or if I'm posting it in the wrong place. My theory is that “the dragon has three heads” means it’s three different persons, and that those are: 1. Jon, Azor Ahai. Ment to lead the battle against The Others. I have no doubt that V&I know who Jon really is , though I can't say if they had a hand in placing him at the wall or that's just a lucky coincedence. Same thing goes for Melisandre; were V&I involved in sending her or not? I'm having a hard time estimating how much influence they have outside of Westeros and Pentos. Either way, as soon as Stannis dies, Melisandre will finally realise Jon is AA, tell him about it, and possibly even (help him) upgrade Longclaw into Lightbringer. 2. Daenerys, Mother of Dragons. Ment to wake the dragons from stone. Given three dragon eggs by Illyrio. If V&I hadn't been sure that Dany was MoD, they would never have given her three valuable dragon eggs, so it stands to reason that Dany is given the eggs because they know she's the one to wake them from stone. I have no idea what role exactly the Dothraki play in this though, and marrying off Dany does come off as throwing her in at the deep end. Why not keep Dany safely in Pentos and open Big Illy's Dragon Egg Fertilization Company? 3. Aegon, The Prince that was Promised. Was ment to become King. Secretly saved from death by Varys and prepared for rule onder supervision of Jon Connington. Together they form the Fire, to defeat Ice (The Others). Ofcourse I welcome any criticism/disproving/questions :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Welcome to the forums,Surely, A lot you can research here about this as well.Anyway, my thoughts are the dragon heads will be 3 people and all dragon riders. Dany, Jon and Tyrion.All, IMHO anyway, have Targ blood, all of there mothers died in childbirth, etc. etc.I don't think V & I new the dragon eggs would hatch though. I think Dany was just an afterthought until they did. I think they wanted the Dothraki to invade to so discourse in Westros, to make it prime for a (f)Aegon invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattenhoofd Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Interesting. What's your reason to believe Tyrion has Targaryen blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Interesting. What's your reason to believe Tyrion has Targaryen blood?A+J = TKing Aerys plus Joanna Lannister (Tywins wife and cousin) were his birth parents.If you search you should be able to find plenty of threads about it. Some agree with it and some do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi guys, I'm new to the forums, so I apologise if this theory was posted already, or if I'm posting it in the wrong place. My theory is that “the dragon has three heads” means it’s three different persons, and that those are: 1. Jon, Azor Ahai. Ment to lead the battle against The Others. I have no doubt that V&I know who Jon really is , though I can't say if they had a hand in placing him at the wall or that's just a lucky coincedence. Same thing goes for Melisandre; were V&I involved in sending her or not? I'm having a hard time estimating how much influence they have outside of Westeros and Pentos. Either way, as soon as Stannis dies, Melisandre will finally realise Jon is AA, tell him about it, and possibly even (help him) upgrade Longclaw into Lightbringer. 2. Daenerys, Mother of Dragons. Ment to wake the dragons from stone. Given three dragon eggs by Illyrio. If V&I hadn't been sure that Dany was MoD, they would never have given her three valuable dragon eggs, so it stands to reason that Dany is given the eggs because they know she's the one to wake them from stone. I have no idea what role exactly the Dothraki play in this though, and marrying off Dany does come off as throwing her in at the deep end. Why not keep Dany safely in Pentos and open Big Illy's Dragon Egg Fertilization Company? 3. Aegon, The Prince that was Promised. Was ment to become King. Secretly saved from death by Varys and prepared for rule onder supervision of Jon Connington. Together they form the Fire, to defeat Ice (The Others). Ofcourse I welcome any criticism/disproving/questions :) Welcome to the boards!! In a fit of shameless self-promotion, I ran a poll recently regarding who people think are the heads of the dragon (see link here). Jon, Dany, Aegon was the second most popular choice, behind Jon, Dany and Tyrion. I doubt that V&I know nearly as much as you suggest. I also doubt Aegon (Young Griff) actually is the son of Rhaegar. Interesting. What's your reason to believe Tyrion has Targaryen blood? The evidence is out there. As additional shameless self-promotion, I also have a thread running that goes through the evidence that Tyrion is the son of Aerys (see link here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Welcome to the boards!! In a fit of shameless self-promotion, I ran a poll recently regarding who people think are the heads of the dragon (see link here). Jon, Dany, Aegon was the second most popular choice, behind Jon, Dany and Tyrion. I doubt that V&I know nearly as much as you suggest. I also doubt Aegon (Young Griff) actually is the son of Rhaegar. The evidence is out there. As additional shameless self-promotion, I also have a thread running that goes through the evidence that Tyrion is the son of Aerys (see link here).Nothing wrong with self promotion, thanks for linking, don't know how to on my phone.Also, I don't think V & I sent Mel to Stannis but who knows.The third head could be Aegon though, even if he is a blackfyre, GRRM did say all the heads didn't neccasarily have to be Targs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattenhoofd Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Thanks for the reply both! I'm interested to see plausible evidence for Tyrion being a Targ, and a bit ashamed to see my theory wasn't nearly as special as I thought. Part of joining the forums I guess :) About V&I though, don't you guys think that they are basically the guys with the plan, working tirelessly to fulfill the prophecy and save the world from domination by The Others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 No worries, another great thread is Jon Snow being all 3 heads of the dragon. Can't link right now but it's a good read. Personally I don't subscribe but many do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Nothing wrong with self promotion, thanks for linking, don't know how to on my phone.Also, I don't think V & I sent Mel to Stannis but who knows.The third head could be Aegon though, even if he is a blackfyre, GRRM did say all the heads didn't neccasarily have to be Targs.I agree they are not all Targaryens. Tyrion, as a Targ bastard raised in the westerlands, would be Tyrion Hill and not Tyrion Targaryen. But I am convinced that the 3HD are the heroes of the book -- the war generals for the Battle for the Dawn 2.0. YG was introduced way too late and is too minor a character to be a head of the dragon and a main hero in the war. He is a plot device to give Dany a worthy adversary to defeat when she arrived in Westeros. I highly doubt he makes it to the endgame. And yes, while he has sufficient dragon blood (maybe as much as anyone in the series), he just is not important enough character to be one of the ultimate "main" heroes. He is the mummer's dragon -- one of the lies that Dany must slay. The structure of the story does not work (IMHO) all of a sudden to make this relatively minor, non-POV character a major dragon rider/savior of the world. He may ride a dragon, but only for the purpose of dying in a dramatic battle -- not for the purpose of being one of the three "final" dragon riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Thanks for the reply both! I'm interested to see plausible evidence for Tyrion being a Targ, and a bit ashamed to see my theory wasn't nearly as special as I thought. Part of joining the forums I guess :) About V&I though, don't you guys think that they are basically the guys with the plan, working tirelessly to fulfill the prophecy and save the world from domination by The Others?I think that LittleFinger and Varys (and by inclusion Illyrio) are the two most influential players. Though I don't think V & I are working towards saving the world from the others. I think their goal, At least for the time being, is to place Aegon (IMO Illyrios son and a Blackfyre) on the IT. Varys may have further plans after that as well, though getting past that is purely speculative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I agree they are not all Targaryens. Tyrion, as a Targ bastard raised in the westerlands, would be Tyrion Hill and not Tyrion Targaryen. But I am convinced that the 3HD are the heroes of the book -- the war generals for the Battle for the Dawn 2.0. YG was introduced way too late and is too minor a character to be a head of the dragon and a main hero in the war. He is a plot device to give Dany a worthy adversary to defeat when she arrived in Westeros. I highly doubt he makes it to the endgame. And yes, while he has sufficient dragon blood (maybe as much as anyone in the series), he just is not important enough character to be one of the ultimate "main" heroes. He is the mummer's dragon -- one of the lies that Dany must slay. The structure of the story does not work (IMHO) all of a sudden to make this relatively minor, non-POV character a major dragon rider/savior of the world. He may ride a dragon, but only for the purpose of dying in a dramatic battle -- not for the purpose of being one of the three "final" dragon riders.Agreed,Would be interested to see how many votes JOn Snow being all 3 heads got on your poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi guys, I'm new to the forums, so I apologise if this theory was posted already, or if I'm posting it in the wrong place. My theory is that the dragon has three heads means its three different persons, and that those are: 1. Jon, Azor Ahai. Ment to lead the battle against The Others. I have no doubt that V&I know who Jon really is , though I can't say if they had a hand in placing him at the wall or that's just a lucky coincedence. Same thing goes for Melisandre; were V&I involved in sending her or not? I'm having a hard time estimating how much influence they have outside of Westeros and Pentos. Either way, as soon as Stannis dies, Melisandre will finally realise Jon is AA, tell him about it, and possibly even (help him) upgrade Longclaw into Lightbringer. 2. Daenerys, Mother of Dragons. Ment to wake the dragons from stone. Given three dragon eggs by Illyrio. If V&I hadn't been sure that Dany was MoD, they would never have given her three valuable dragon eggs, so it stands to reason that Dany is given the eggs because they know she's the one to wake them from stone. I have no idea what role exactly the Dothraki play in this though, and marrying off Dany does come off as throwing her in at the deep end. Why not keep Dany safely in Pentos and open Big Illy's Dragon Egg Fertilization Company? 3. Aegon, The Prince that was Promised. Was ment to become King. Secretly saved from death by Varys and prepared for rule onder supervision of Jon Connington. Together they form the Fire, to defeat Ice (The Others). Ofcourse I welcome any criticism/disproving/questions :)Well, you got the right dudes, but notnall of 'em are gonna get along...The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don't know what the middle head's supposed to do. The Ugly Little Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Agreed,Would be interested to see how many votes JOn Snow being all 3 heads got on your poll.Here is a link to one of the threads discussing Jon as all 3 heads here. For purposes of my poll, I disallowed any votes that did not include 3 different people because I thought it would confuse the issue and make tabulation more complicated and did not want the thread to be high-jacked by a discussion of whether the three heads are one or three people. Personally, I also think that GRRM more or less has told us that it will be three people when he said that the three heads are not necessarily all Targaryen. That statement is nonsensical if Jon is all 3 heads. I know the theory has some prominent followers -- I just am not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Here is a link to one of the threads discussing Jon as all 3 heads here. For purposes of my poll, I disallowed any votes that did not include 3 different people because I thought it would confuse the issue and make tabulation more complicated and did not want the thread to be high-jacked by a discussion of whether the three heads are one or three people. Personally, I also think that GRRM more or less has told us that it will be three people when he said that the three heads are not necessarily all Targaryen. That statement is nonsensical if Jon is all 3 heads. I know the theory has some prominent followers -- I just am not convinced.^^yes,Plus it just seemed weird to me that they are going to introduce all these three heads concepts to Dany, Aemon is going to talk about it in relation to Dany but oh wait, it has nothing to do with Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Thanks for the reply both! I'm interested to see plausible evidence for Tyrion being a Targ, and a bit ashamed to see my theory wasn't nearly as special as I thought. Part of joining the forums I guess :) About V&I though, don't you guys think that they are basically the guys with the plan, working tirelessly to fulfill the prophecy and save the world from domination by The Others? Welcome to the forums. I'm glad to see you here. I believe that V&I are working towards fulfilling the AA/PTWP/3HotD prophecies, but that view is an unpopular one. Many people reject the idea because they think there is no way that V&I know about the others. I basically agree. V&I have shown no indication that they have any idea about the others. However, we have been given at least three different explanations about what people think AA is supposed to accomplish, including one that doesn't include the Others at all. I try to explain that this shows that even if V&I are working towards the prophecy, it still doesn't tell us what exactly they hope will happen. When the original outline for the series was leaked, it showed that Dany originally found the dragon egg. The fact that the story changed so that Dany was given the dragon eggs is not a coincidence. This change makes it seem more likely that Dany was given the eggs in the hope she would hatch them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattenhoofd Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I believe that V&I are working towards fulfilling the AA/PTWP/3HotD prophecies, but that view is an unpopular one. Many people reject the idea because they think there is no way that V&I know about the others. I basically agree. V&I have shown no indication that they have any idea about the others. Very interesting. I will never believe V&I have made the same mistake as most people by dismissing the widely known stories about The Others as fiction, so they know The Others are a real thing, they know about the prophecies, they know a long winter is coming, they know of wildlings at the wall, and they know that Melisandre has proclaimed Stannis as AA. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me that V&I have pieced it all together (perhaps combined with gathered intel that we aren't aware of). A lot of it hinges on how much they know about the prophecies and if their goal is really to fulfill them. If so, I have no doubt they have a good idea about what's happening at the wall. Do you have any links to discussions about this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Very interesting. I will never believe V&I have made the same mistake as most people by dismissing the widely known stories about The Others as fiction, so they know The Others are a real thing, they know about the prophecies, they know a long winter is coming, they know of wildlings at the wall, and they know that Melisandre has proclaimed Stannis as AA. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me that V&I have pieced it all together (perhaps combined with gathered intel that we aren't aware of). A lot of it hinges on how much they know about the prophecies and if their goal is really to fulfill them. If so, I have no doubt they have a good idea about what's happening at the wall. Do you have any links to discussions about this topic?If you go to the Thread that's pinned at the top of the threads in this section called "a compendium of theories v2" there are bunch of links to different theories in the first post. Many of them are on Varys plans, LF plans, The Others, etc.One I would suggest is "the mastermind and the gold digger." Very good outline and ongoing posts all the way through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattenhoofd Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozlym Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 whoa whoa calm down now guys we really giving V an I credit to all this knowledge? what are they "wizards" now? heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 whoa whoa calm down now guys we really giving V an I credit to all this knowledge? what are they "wizards" now? hehPutting (f)Aegon on the IT and maybe Varys has some other plans after that. But that's about it IMO anyway.Do you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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