AFFC Reread Project - The Ironborn

[Mind Elemental]

The Reaver

Assorted points:

- Vic strikes me as being rather similar to Kevan. Both are middle-aged, stalwart, dutiful sorts who loyally served their dead brothers.

- That said, Vic is the more concerned of the two about his niece, and with good reason! In this chapter, he thinks that he's glad she and her crew absconded, and hopes that she'll marry some inland northern lord and be safe. Sure, this is hardly the most progressive attitude -- or perceptive -- but it's the thought that counts...

- On the other hand, Kevan is the more imaginative of the two. Euron's stunt with the lordships is almost exactly akin to what Kevan suggested Cersei do with regard to the Hand -- name the other guy's men so as to win them to you.

- What's up with Euron scurrying out of the room like that? It doesn't take a genius to observe, as Vic does, that the ironborn won't look kindly on such a thing.

- Finally, speaking of geniuses, Euron may be insane, but he's not an idiot. I'm certain that he knows Vic will likely betray him, and ever since I read that chapter, I suspected it was a trap of some kind. The Dusky Woman speculation didn't occur to me, but you raise excellent points in regard to that. It's plausible that she may end up being part of any trap.

[sh_wulff]

Perhaps he allowed the ravens to get to Highgarden so that they would be preoccupied with defending themselves against the might of the Reach in his absence, rather than have any opportunity to consider or conspire rebellion

especially as all of those given lordship over the Shield Islands aren't the warmest oof Euron-philes

[A wilding]

Yes, I agree with everybody.

It looks like Euron is basically going for broke. His only purpose in becoming king of the Iron Islands was to gain a war fleet. Having done that he is happy to abandon the place to whatever counter action Damphair or Asha can manage. The lordships he handed out were basically to remove people from the fleet who might cause him problems later, he does not care if Highgarden recaptures the Shield Islands.

From this angle, it looks like his revised plan, after the Reader stuck his oar in, is to discard most of his armada and just keep its core, i.e. Victarion's Iron Fleet. The implication is that he will secretly follow the Iron Fleet in Silence and intervene at some point, presumably when they reach Meereen. And yes the woman he gave Victarion has to be some sort of plant, and may perhaps enable him to track the Iron Fleet's movements.

[rpthomps]

I think it has been said before in this group some affinity for Lord Rodrik "the reader". I agree, he sounds a lot like me. I hope GRRM does not kill him. He seems to have courage and a little luck to make it through the battles, perhaps even skill. To find he died would be sad and a little painful to bear, seeing how close an affinity I have with him. Perhaps, we will see him at the very end, paying homage to Dany as she crowns him chief Maester.

[Happy Ent]

The implication is that he will secretly follow the Iron Fleet in Silence and intervene at some point, presumably when they reach Meereen.

Very good! Yes, now it all makes sense. Did we really figure this out all by ourselves on this thread?

[Mo Sneachd]

That is a brilliant theory. It makes perfect sense.

Did we really figure this out all by ourselves on this thread?

I would say: yes, you did. And I was here while history was being made. *awed*

[Mind Elemental]

That is a brilliant theory. It makes perfect sense.

Thirded!

[Ran]

Wilding's theory remind me of some speculation that BoG and I considered back when AFfC was released.

But I really like the foundation that has been provided. I never did quite make the connection (now so painfully obvious once it's been pointed out) that if Euron is actually planning to sneak along behind Victarion, he's leaving the ironborn to their own devices, suggesting he places far more importance on the dragons than the Iron Islands.

Also from the previous page, the suggestion that Euron may at least be thinking somewhat about keeping the ironborn too busy to cause him trouble when he's away by letting the Reach get a good, clear warning about the ironborn assault strikes me as a good one. There's method to Euron's madness, it seems.

[Angalin]

Very neat. This hypothesis also leaves an opening for Asha, with or without Theon, to pick up the pieces of the Iron Islands in Euron's absence. Nice!

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

With Theon, I think. Asha by herself can't win the throne, and by this point she knows it. Victarion's going to be hundreds of miles away. Aeron doesn't want the throne. There's really only one possibility.

[rpthomps]

With Theon, I think. Asha by herself can't win the throne, and by this point she knows it. Victarion's going to be hundreds of miles away. Aeron doesn't want the throne. There's really only one possibility.

Perhaps Theon will find his compassion again and look for Bran and Rickon to rally the North against the Others.

From the chapter...

I found the fact that the ironborn depend on their ship opponents having no armour in battle a significant advantage for them.

A score of ships protected the isle...had to look this up. A score is twenty.

The Silence, name of Euron's ship, is an interesting name and I think has some deep meaning and insight into Euron and possibly his objectives. Who is being silenced? Why? My instinct thinks that Euron is the silencer, which implies that someone has information that could hurt him in some way. Is it Aeron? Too little to go on.

Hotho Harlaw has a Valyrian blade.

Victarion thinks of Serry, the man he pushed overboard and an enemy with whom he respected. I think he longs for those types of battles and blames Euron for the choices he is forced to make. Choices that work against his romantic notion of battle.

Finally, when Euron and Victarion are talking alone:

"Baseborn mongrels, born of whores and weepers."

"They are of your body."

"So are the contents of my chamber pot."

(great line)

[Barba]

The Silence, name of Euron's ship, is an interesting name and I think has some deep meaning and insight into Euron and possibly his objectives. Who is being silenced? Why? My instinct thinks that Euron is the silencer, which implies that someone has information that could hurt him in some way. Is it Aeron? Too little to go on.

We know in kingsmooth euron's men blew the horn, and Aeron thought it silenced voice of the drowned god. Even in the end of the chapter he tried to hear his god, but heard nothing. It might be it, but I doubt it. It has bigger meaning than that, IMHO.

[Jon Targaryen]

The Reaver

Victarion has respect for his admirable foes.

Victarion asks the same question the board asked about Stannis and his kinslayng.

Aeron will have trouble with his rebellion. The lordlings are what matter in Westeros.

[Lupigis]

Little to add here, since I'm behind in my reread.

There is a neat analogy between Dampahir and the High Septon (who appears in the preceding Cersei chapter) in that both try to gain power by raising the smallfolk. Euron is no Cersei, though, so I think Aeron's chances are poor...

Euron notes that "The price of slaves is rising" and we know that this is happening because of what Dany has been up to in ASOS.

I pretty much agree with the rest of you regarding Euron's plans in sending Victarion to get Dany. In addition to what has already been pointed out, one can see a sort of win-win-win scenario for Euron here:

If Victarion (against all odds) does exactly as he has been told, and successfully woos Dany for Euron, all is well for Euron.

If Victarion manages to marry Dany himself (as he plans to do) he gives Euron an acceptable excuse to kill him (and then take Dany for himself), something Euron can probably do using his horn and his warlocks.

If Victarion fails and alienates Dany, Euron can then turn up and save Dany from Victarion.

Poor Victarion...

[rpthomps]

If Victarion manages to marry Dany himself (as he plans to do) he gives Euron an acceptable excuse to kill him (and then take Dany for himself), something Euron can probably do using his horn and his warlocks.

If Victarion fails and alienates Dany, Euron can then turn up and save Dany from Victarion.

Poor Victarion...

Sounds like Victarion needs his own horn. Maybe a horn of winter....

[Ealasaid]

I'm extremely far behind in the reread and posting here.

IMHO, the screaming hinge and Urri have nothing do with each other. When Aeron awoke to that horrible sound, he reached for something safe: his love for Urri. I agree with - Ran, I think - that some kind of horrible abuse was visited upon Aeron by Euron. And that abuse make him worthy of Balon's scorn.

I don't like the Greyjoy clan. But being of Viking stock by way of pillaging and raping in Ireland and Germany, I have the Viking red hair. I find the Ironborn interesting.

I thought initally that Euron had a faceless man kill Balon. But I agree that somehow he controls the winds with help of the magical people he has hauled back from the East. And he rode in on the wind that threw Balon to his death.

And Euron pulling men loyal to Victarion was brilliant. Just unmanned him.

I am almost beginning to pity Dany, she has a lot coming at her. I'm a little worried about that horn.

[Lord Eddard's Shame]

I thought of something interesting when I read that Hotho Harlaw had a valyrian blade, which I believe he named Red Rain, or something. I thought it might be the Lannister blade which Jaime's youngest uncle went searching for before he disappeared. If he found it and was on his way back and was attacked by the Ironborn, Harlaw may have taken it from him. It seems he is quite the swordsman, but I wonder whether that is from his own right or the steel. Probably a bit of both. He reminds me of that guy with the saber from the newest King Arthur movie. The one that had the pickish Gueniver played by Keira Knightly.

[urizen]

I thought of something interesting when I read that Hotho Harlaw had a valyrian blade, which I believe he named Red Rain, or something. I thought it might be the Lannister blade which Jaime's youngest uncle went searching for before he disappeared. If he found it and was on his way back and was attacked by the Ironborn, Harlaw may have taken it from him. It seems he is quite the swordsman, but I wonder whether that is from his own right or the steel. Probably a bit of both. He reminds me of that guy with the saber from the newest King Arthur movie. The one that had the pickish Gueniver played by Keira Knightly.

I think you have gotten the characters and valyrian swords mixed up. Ser Harras Harlaw carries the sword Nightfall. Red Rain is owned by Dunstan Drumm and The Lannister blade Gerion went looking for was called Brightroar.

[Lord Eddard's Shame]

I'm sure you're right, and I have gotten the characters mixed up. However, I still think it relevant that the Knight, who it seems acquired this blade within his own lifetime, may have done so by taking it from Gerion as he attempted to return to Casterly Rock.

I appreciate the correction, but wish you would have bothered to comment on the substance of the theory as well. What is the point, otherwise, except to point out the mistakes of others? Especially on such a minor point as this.

[urizen]

I'm sure you're right, and I have gotten the characters mixed up. However, I still think it relevant that the Knight, who it seems acquired this blade within his own lifetime, may have done so by taking it from Gerion as he attempted to return to Casterly Rock.

I appreciate the correction, but wish you would have bothered to comment on the substance of the theory as well. What is the point, otherwise, except to point out the mistakes of others? Especially on such a minor point as this.

Sorry if I came off as condescending but it's hard to relate tone of voice in writing.

As to theory I don't like it on account of how the swords are dicussed in the chapters. They give me the impression that these valyrian swords has been with the Ironborn for more than a generation. It wouldn't suprise me if the swords are passed on through the generations to the best warrior, somewhat similar to how Dawn is passed down to worthy Dayne's.