Galbart Glover

[manuco]

What do we have to say to Galbart Glover ? He isn't Lord of Deepwood Motte so we can't say "My Lord". Then, what do we say ? "My master ?" ? Or just "Master" ? Or something else ?

[Wolf of The Wall]

What?

[Buried Treasure]

Peasants might just 'm'lord' him, non-lords like Tyrion get that treatment just out of courtesy.

[Grissom]

What?

House glover isn't a lordly house, it is a masterly house.

Peasants might just 'm'lord' him, non-lords like Tyrion get that treatment just out of courtesy.

It would be funny if peasants would call them m'masters.

[manuco]

What?

I'm asking how to speak to Galbart Golver because Galbart is not Lord of Deepwood Motte but Master of Deepwood Motte so we can't say "My Lord"

[Ser Greenseer]

What is the difference between a masterly house and a lordly house?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

A Lord has the right of pit and gallows (on his own lands). He can judge capital crimes on his own authority. A Master or knight can't.

Probably a couple other, more minor, differences as well.

[manuco]

What is the difference between a masterly house and a lordly house?

A masterly house is the equivalent for the northmen (and Ironborn i believe) of a knightly house

[King of Winter-ish Stuff]

Other people have said it. Masterly Houses is just a landed knight. They oversee the land as it is (in)directly controlled by House Stark. That's why LORD Umber refused to march behind a Glover. The Greatjon was a lord and Galbart Glover is just a master.

[Free Northman Reborn]

As I have said before, I disagree that they are just landed knights. They appear to be a Marcher lord type of ranking, unique to the North. And in this I mean Marcher lord as in the English-Welsh border lords in the real world, rather than the Marcher lords of the Stormlands.

From Wikipedia: "A marcher lord was a strong and trusted noble appointed by the King to guard the border between England and Wales."

So they are akin to "Warden's of" a certain area.

The Glovers likely Wardens of the wild Wolfswood and Sea Dragon point. The Tallharts Wardens of the Stony Shore. Both areas that suffer from periodic Ironborn attacks.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Masters administer lands for a lord above them. Landed knights protect land for a lord. Lord rules the lands.

[Knight Of Winter]

As was said, House Glover is masterly, not lordly house. Although, with big tracts of land, well-known seat and decent manpower, as well as Galbart Glover being sworn directly to Starks and having seat at their war council - his de facto position is akin to that of a lord.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

As was said, House Glover is masterly, not lordly house. Although, with big tracts of land, well-known seat and decent manpower, as well as Galbart Glover being sworn directly to Starks and having seat at their war council - his de facto position is akin to that of a lord.

...as long as he aligns with the Starks. Lords can operate more independently.

[Nittanian]

Has George ever used the term "masterly", or is it fan usage (like "Lord Paramount of the North") and an assumption that northern master is comparable to landed knight? I didn't find it in a search of the ebooks.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

"Master of castle xy" is used sometimes, tacked on in full title lists after "Lord of xy, Ser whatever". For example, LF jokes about being the "Master of the Drearfort" while introducing Sansa to his holdings on the Fingers. That's the only quote I remember off-hand, but there should be more.

[Universal Sword Donor]

As I have said before, I disagree that they are just landed knights. They appear to be a Marcher lord type of ranking, unique to the North. And in this I mean Marcher lord as in the English-Welsh border lords in the real world, rather than the Marcher lords of the Stormlands.

From Wikipedia: "A marcher lord was a strong and trusted noble appointed by the King to guard the border between England and Wales."

So they are akin to "Warden's of" a certain area.

The Glovers likely Wardens of the wild Wolfswood and Sea Dragon point. The Tallharts Wardens of the Stony Shore. Both areas that suffer from periodic Ironborn attacks.

Yeah it's pretty similar to Markgrafen, which is more or less the HRE equivalent of what you defined. Started out as a military governor or administrator and eventually became hereditary when the borders started expanding and the title was more ceremonial than anything else.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Yeah it's pretty similar to Markgrafen, which is more or less the HRE equivalent of what you defined. Started out as a military governor or administrator and eventually became hereditary when the borders started expanding and the title was more ceremonial than anything else.

Translated as marquis, margrave or viscount.

[Nittanian]

"Master of castle xy" is used sometimes, tacked on in full title lists after "Lord of xy, Ser whatever". For example, LF jokes about being the "Master of the Drearfort" while introducing Sansa to his holdings on the Fingers. That's the only quote I remember off-hand, but there should be more.

Right, as examples I find:

*MONFORD VELARYON, Lord of the Tides and Master of Driftmark (ACOK appendix)

*MONTERYS VELARYON, Lord of the Tides and Master of Driftmark (ASOS appendix)

*GALBART GLOVER, Master of Deepwood Motte (ASOS appendix)

*HELMAN TALLHART, Master of Torrhen's Square (AFFC appendix)

*SIGFRYD HARLAW, called SIGFRYD SILVERHAIR, his great uncle, master of Harlaw Hall (AFFC appendix, master is lower case)

*BOREMUND HARLAW, called BOREMUND THE BLUE, master of Harridan Hill, a cousin (AFFC appendix, master is lower case)

*Godric Borrell, Lord of Sweetsister, Shield of Sisterton, Master of Breakwater Castle, and Keeper of the Night Lamp" (ADWD Davos I)

[thelittledragonthatcould]

As I have said before, I disagree that they are just landed knights. They appear to be a Marcher lord type of ranking, unique to the North. And in this I mean Marcher lord as in the English-Welsh border lords in the real world, rather than the Marcher lords of the Stormlands.

From Wikipedia: "A marcher lord was a strong and trusted noble appointed by the King to guard the border between England and Wales."

So they are akin to "Warden's of" a certain area.

The Glovers likely Wardens of the wild Wolfswood and Sea Dragon point. The Tallharts Wardens of the Stony Shore. Both areas that suffer from periodic Ironborn attacks.

So why aren't the Manderlys Masters of White Harbour as they are Wardens of the White Knife and were placed there to stop the frequent attacks?

Or the Umbers, who have to deal with frequent Wildling attacks?

The Reeds who had to deal with Souther attacks?

Or the Flints of Flints Finger who rule land closest to the Ironborn and we are told in the Worldbook that the population of Cape Kraken has as much Ironborn blood as Northern.

I'm not sure what the big deal is. There are Knighly houses more powerful than Lordly houses, the Glovers and Tallharts may be able ot raise more men than many Lordly Houses but we know that they are not comparable to the likes of the Manderys, Boltons, Umbers, Karstarks and Dustins in the North.

Both Houses rule weak, easily took castles.

"Bugger Deepwood. It's a wooden pisspot on a hill."

"Torrhen's Square is not worth the mud beneath my heels. It is Winterfell that matters"

[Universal Sword Donor]

So why aren't the Manderlys Masters of White Harbour as they are Wardens of the White Knife and were placed there to stop the frequent attacks?

Or the Umbers, who have to deal with frequent Wildling attacks?

The Reeds who had to deal with Souther attacks?

Or the Flints of Flints Finger who rule land closest to the Ironborn and we are told in the Worldbook that the population of Cape Kraken has as much Ironborn blood as Northern.

I'm not sure what the big deal is. There are Knighly houses more powerful than Lordly houses, the Glovers and Tallharts may be able ot raise more men than many Lordly Houses but we know that they are not comparable to the likes of the Manderys, Boltons, Umbers, Karstarks and Dustins in the North.

Both Houses rule weak, easily took castles.

"Bugger Deepwood. It's a wooden pisspot on a hill."

"Torrhen's Square is not worth the mud beneath my heels. It is Winterfell that matters"

Deepwood is weak.

Theon himself considers Torrhen's Square strong (as did Dagmer). Dagmer is able to take it over when Rodrik marches with the men and garrison back to WF and leaves it more or less undefended.

You're really taking Stannis' quote of on context too. He's not commenting on the relative strength or worth of the castle in general. He's talking about it in terms of status and importance to the Northerner's he needs to fight with him as well as WF holding the Ned's "daughter."