The Book of the New Sun First Read and Re-read project [spoilers]

[Fragile Bird]

More chapters tomorrow.   

[BookWyrm2]

Darth Richard,

You're almost certainly right about where Nessus is.

At the end of chapter IV, to simply pile on evidence, Valeria serves Severian a certain tea called "maté". A quick wiki search should confirm the "present-day" source of such tea.

I've also got this impression in my head now of Vodalus's location and potentially a first-impression of how large the Autarch's Commonwealth is:

In chapter V, when Severian is trying to pry information about Vodalus from Rudesind:

Quote

 

I seized my opportunity. "Or Vodalus."

Rudesind cackled. "Or him, that's right enough. Your bunch must be rubbing their hands waiting to have him. Got something special planned?"

If the guild had particular excruciations reserved for specific individuals, I knew nothing of it; but I endeavored to look wise and said, "We'll think of something."

"I suppose you will. A bit ago, though, I thought you was for him. Still you'll have to wait if he's hiding in the Forests of Lune."

 

We get the impression that something about the Forests of Lune may make it difficult to find Vodalus.

Spoiler

Perhaps he's hiding in the Amazon?

 

[Darth Richard II]

Oh I take no credit for figuring that out, I read it somewhere.

 

You know I still haven't read Short Sun, I need to get the fuck on that.

[Jo498]

There are already several hints that the sun is "old" (usually reddish even on midday) and that the sea to the south is filled with ice. Why the sky should be dark is something I do not understand. There are no hints that the atmosphere is considerably different, so the sky should still be blue, shouldn't it?

The forests of Lune are on the (terraformed, that's why Severian does not recognize the 20th century "desert moon" on the picture) moon! So this is an exaggeration by the picture cleaner.

The play for the elevation seems pretty close to the legend of St. Catherine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Alexandria#Torture_and_martyrdom

Lochage and peltast are again Greek words for a rank and a type of soldier, respectively (Note that they have transparent shields like modern policemen). Again, the society seems on the brink of anarchy. Closing the roads for easier taxation (but obviously hindering commerce and travel) seems a desperate measure. Uhlans can freely plunder travellers when patrolling the roads. Nobody knows how many people live in the sprawl of Nessus and the lochage (a police sergeant or captain of Nessus) thought the torturer's guild was no longer in existence, despite their headquarters being just a few hours walk away!

It gets fairly crazy and confusing soon, but I do not think the main point of the book is a "long con" with surprising revelations. I find many episodes quite atmospheric and exciting, although I do not quite understand what their point in the whole narrative will be.

[Wilbur]

It is at this point that the book goes off the rails for me, once we begin Severian's Amazing Technicolor Road Trip.

My main problem with the book from here on out is how a character who seemed to act in a fairly logical and straightforward manner (at least for a Wolfe protagonist) up until this point suddenly begins to interact with random strangers.  If a sensible person is given an order to travel to Thrax, you would think that he would focus on traveling to Thrax.  Instead, Severian spend the rest of this book engaging in a lot of aimless conversations and pointless wandering around.  Granted, these interactions and wanderings provide the stimulus for the action to come, but it seems like purposeless thrashing rather than steps on the critical path.

Maybe I am too goal-oriented, but the Road Trip second half of the book is very frustrating to me.  As others have said, it is quite dense and very episodic, but the purpose is pretty obscure.  Also, in terms of a stand-alone book, the second half and the conclusion are a disappointment as well, given the lack of resolution or any answer to the question of What The Protagonist Wants.

However, I am eager to hear your insights so that I can better understand what the book and the actions therein mean.

[Jo498]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

It is at this point that the book goes off the rails for me, once we begin Severian's Amazing Technicolor Road Trip.

(Actually, for me the book only got off the rails in the second volume with a transcript of Dr Talos' play). Apart from the fact that  I would not apply too strict demands of logic on the episodes of a quest, I think the beginning is not all that implausible. Severian is out of his depth because he only knew his Guild and parts of the Citadel, so it is not implausible that he stumbles into strange company but sticks to them to have any support at all. Because the trip to Thrax would not have been straightforward in any case.

As for the supposed Borges references in context of Master Ultan and the library, this becomes maybe more plausible as Wolfe apparently took the name "Baldanders" from Borges El libro de los seres imaginarios (Book of imaginary beings), so he had read Borges. It literally means "soon another" and shapeshifting beings of that name are featured in books by several German authors of the 16th and 17th century. (I read Simplicissimus about 3 years ago and was puzzled by the occurence of someone named Baldanders in the book of the New Sun.)

So far there is no clue that the giant Baldanders is a shapeshifter. Rather, the more immediate parallel with Dr Talos and Baldanders seems to be Dr Frankenstein and his creature.

There seems another literary reference in the chapter where we get a partial tour of the torture chamber. They have a device for etching letters and words into a victim. A similar device is featured in Kafka's "In the penal colony".

More interesting maybe that the torturers know how to use electrical devices (and have some power source) but seem to have lost all but the most basic electrical theory, calling it "lightning".

Thecla does not seem to have been guilty of actual treason (at least we don't know) but her excruciation seem to be intended as some kind of poetic justice: like a traitor has split his loyalty, her own body is manipulated to attack itself.

[matt b]

5 hours ago, Jo498 said:

There are already several hints that the sun is "old" (usually reddish even on midday) and that the sea to the south is filled with ice. Why the sky should be dark is something I do not understand. There are no hints that the atmosphere is considerably different, so the sky should still be blue, shouldn't it?

I think it's just the fact that it's not as bright as it is for us in our time. So the day never gets much past dusk/twilight. Not sure if the science plays out or not there.

5 hours ago, Jo498 said:

The forests of Lune are on the (terraformed, that's why Severian does not recognize the 20th century "desert moon" on the picture) moon! So this is an exaggeration by the picture cleaner.

What's an exaggeration? Seems to me he was being pretty direct and literal.

[Jo498]

The hiding place of Vodalus is on the moon? I did not get that or it was not revealed as far as I have read (end of book 2). The picture-cleaner says that IF V is on the moon, Severian cannot easily get there.

Spoiler

When Severian meets Vodalus later this it's in the forest but not on the moon, or did I completely misunderstand that? In any case it's not in a jungle but a temperate forest, so it isn't the Amazonian jungle either which would be too far north. Gran chaco region could be possible.

 

[matt b]

Ah, okay, I'm following you now, I thought you were talking about the moon being terraformed. Actually, it was Severian who suggested Vodalus might be on Lune, Rudesind just sort of went along with it in a  "sure, why not?" sort of way. At least that's how it played to me.

[Fragile Bird]

2 hours ago, Jo498 said:

Thecla does not seem to have been guilty of actual treason (at least we don't know) but her excruciation seem to be intended as some kind of poetic justice: like a traitor has split his loyalty, her own body is manipulated to attack itself.

That's a very interesting way of looking at it. 

As I said, I am also reading this from a Catholic point of view, and I wondered if Wolfe was making a point about Catholic guilt, which tears up many a Catholic, making them feel responsible for things that are not their fault or that, in fact, don't carry any kind of guilt or blame.  Maybe Thecla is guilty of not being her brother's keeper (her sister, actually).

I was also thinking about the dilemma the guild finds itself in, wanting to torture Severian on one hand for being a traitor, and yet deciding they couldn't because they only torture someone on orders from up high.  I thought about all the matter-of-fact descriptions given of the various tortures, the instruments, the use of carved thighbones for flutes.  Not to Godwin this thread or anything    but it sure sounds like the typical military defence, we were only following orders.

[BookWyrm2]

Of course! I somehow didn't even realize that Lune was the Moon - jinkies!

I don't know how far down this rabbit hole I should go but I throw it out there anyways:

A star like the Sun will both turn red and expand as it "dies". This isn't esoteric astronomy and has been well-known for a long time (certainly when this book was written). Urth wouldn't be habitable if such a natural death were approaching so we're definitely looking at something else.

Considering how strictly Wolfe adheres to scientific explanations for the things going on in tBotNS (and also considering his scientific background), it leads me to believe that someone's responsible for the current state of the Sun and it's not just a matter of an aged star passing away.

Conspiracy theory? Is Urth being punished for something?

[Jo498]

They really are only following orders. They apparently also have been trained very well to "compartmentalize". At the beginning of the 2nd book Severian works for a while as executioner in a small town and does not seem to have any qualms or pity, or at least he does not allow them to interfere with his duty.

I agree that the cool, matter-of-fact-description of the tortures (and the fact that Severian is otherwise drawn as a sympathetic and sensitive person) have a very chilling effect. (I find this more effective than the darkly humorous torture scenes with Glokta in First law.)

As for the "old sun": Either alternative physics with an early stadium before expansion that is cooler and redder. Or the atmosphere (maybe only the outer layers) is messed up and therefore the sun appears reddish.

 

[matt b]

33 minutes ago, BookWyrm2 said:

A star like the Sun will both turn red and expand as it "dies". This isn't esoteric astronomy and has been well-known for a long time (certainly when this book was written). Urth wouldn't be habitable if such a natural death were approaching so we're definitely looking at something else.

Considering how strictly Wolfe adheres to scientific explanations for the things going on in tBotNS (and also considering his scientific background), it leads me to believe that someone's responsible for the current state of the Sun and it's not just a matter of an aged star passing away.

Conspiracy theory? Is Urth being punished for something?

There's definitely something going on, but it's only ever vaguely defined. I'll just leave it at that I think, and try to point out references to it as we go along. I'm at Chapter X right now, and haven't seen one yet.

[Fragile Bird]

56 minutes ago, matt b said:

There's definitely something going on, but it's only ever vaguely defined. I'll just leave it at that I think, and try to point out references to it as we go along. I'm at Chapter X right now, and haven't seen one yet.

I may have missed referring to the sun, I think there are references on his walk out of the city.

Please feel free to add details you believe are important that I haven't mentioned in my chapter summaries.  It's a balancing act, since some of the chapters are packed with details that may or may not be important and I don't want to mention everything.

 

And speaking of details, I can't help but think that the mention of hearing padding footsteps and seeing Malrubius step into his room after the elevation ceremony are significant.  Why was Triskele introduced to us?  Why does Malrubius keep coming up?  Did the Masters fake his death, and hide him elsewhere in the Citadel?

Severian describes Master Gurloes as the most complex man he has ever met, and Master Palaemons says Severian is the most brilliant student he has ever taught, save for Master Gurloes.  So I am taking every word he writes as being important.

[matt b]

25 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I may have missed referring to the sun, I think there are reference on his walk out of the city.

It's not really the sun itself but the reason why it's so weak and getting weaker. There is something causing it, and it's referred to a couple times throughout the series.

[Wilbur]

Severian seems to dream of Malrubius in times of stress or at decision points in his life.

[Iskaral Pust]

Thanks again FB for summaries. I'm finding them so helpful that it motivates me to keep pace so that I read the summary after reading the chapter. They help me refresh my memory as I'm reading the next chapters.

Re: sun, it's pretty clear from physics and time frames that the sun is not literally dying but something is changing the amount of energy and light spectrum reaching Urth. Enough to change climate & the appearance of sunlight and inhibit photosynthesis (the jungle is dying) but not the effect of an actual dying star.

In an era of space travel and lunar terraforming, it makes me suspect some intentional extra-planetary interference in the atmosphere or climate (or both), which presumably recurs in long cycles since everyone seems to expect they are approaching the time of a new sun.

It reminds me a bit of Sharon Shinn's fantasy series with angels, who were genetically modified humans with wings and specially modulated voices so that special songs would communicate with Yahweh, a climate-controlling spaceship in orbit.

[Jo498]

With chapters 18-24 the really crazy stuff begins... both space and time seem to be "relative" in a sense in the botanic gardens. But as I only read those first a month ago or so, I now find some rather obvious hints/infos I missed (or only roughtly guessed) the first time. So scrutiny will pay off... but some things are still very unclear

[matt b]

55 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Re: sun, it's pretty clear from physics and time frames that the sun is not literally dying but something is changing the amount of energy and light spectrum reaching Urth. Enough to change climate & the appearance of sunlight and inhibit photosynthesis (the jungle is dying) but not the effect of an actual dying star.

No, it's almost certainly dying, IMHO. But it has nothing to do with the normal life cycle of a star. There is something causing it, literally sucking the energy from it. Or at least that's how it seems to me.  There are references to it later, but I'm still at chapter X.

[Iskaral Pust]

With chapters 18-24 the really crazy stuff begins... both space and time seem to be "relative" in a sense in the botanic gardens. But as I only read those first a month ago or so, I now find some rather obvious hints/infos I missed (or only roughtly guessed) the first time. So scrutiny will pay off... but some things are still very unclear [emoji6]

This is the challenge for me. The wackier/trippier the episode, the less I'm inclined to study it for obscure hints because my brain wants to gloss over what appears to be non sequiturs or nonsense. It's like studying babble for hints of a language emerging -- it's not the level of focus I generally bring to my pleasure reading late at night.