Why did Rhaegar give the garland to Lyanna? A Harrenhal discussion...

[TRLR]

Thats the complete opposite of what I was saying. I am saying there isnt a romance. The romance is just filled in by shippers.

I know. I should have qualified my statement more to say yes, my belief is that Lynna wasn't abducted. The romance part was me totally pointing out that if readers want to make R&L into romance, that's the most "romance" thing that could have happened.

I needed a lot more words. 

[corbon]

Come on. It is called queen of love and beauty. Not medal of bravery and knight spirit.

Nonetheless, it is the only way he can publicly honour her.
  

There is no doubt that queen of love and beauty is a token for romantic love. Barri love ashara as a man loves a woman. Sex is another thing since he is KG. But his love is as pure as rhaegar's in lyanna. It lasted so many years and still overwhelming.
Every story about the final champion crowning his queen of love and beauty is related to romantic love. Nobody can deny this. It is not like if rhaegar thought this is a token of respect and honor, then this is. Sorry, everybody else did not think so.

There is every doubt, but you have looked only at a small portion of the evidence and closed your mind to all else.

And you have very little idea what anyone else thought. All the smiles died does not indicate why they were shocked, just that they were shocked.
Brandon being angry doesn't indicate why - he'd just been beaten in the tourney by Rhaegar and was wild, entitled and prone to irrationality.

Robert laughing it off doesn't sound like it was a huge deal.
 

If he did not forget about his wife, it would be nice of rhaegar to ask elia to be absent that day to avoid being publicly shamed.

 
 Thats based on an assumption on your part that it was a big 'shame' for her and operates in the data void of not knowing at all what happened before or after, what she thought, what she did, what he told her, what they did together.

 

This is one of the pieces of the puzzle that I too don't quite understand. I have no idea how Rhaegar got the blue roses of winter unless he'd come to Harrenhal intending to crown Lyanna Stark for political reasons. Because they don't grow in the South, do they? Who would have brought them along? How did they stay preserved in the warmer Riverlands?
 
I'm sure this has been discussed before. I should probably search the Forums for previous topics. (Wish the R+L=J threads were easier to search, because this has likely come up there as well.)

 
Rhaegar didn't 'get' them, Lord Whent did.
Probably from Winterfell, not that it matters.

[purple-eyes]

Nonetheless, it is the only way he can publicly honour her.
  

There is every doubt, but you have looked only at a small portion of the evidence and closed your mind to all else.
And you have very little idea what anyone else thought. All the smiles died does not indicate why they were shocked, just that they were shocked.
Brandon being angry doesn't indicate why - he'd just been beaten in the tourney by Rhaegar and was wild, entitled and prone to irrationality.
Robert laughing it off doesn't sound like it was a huge deal.
Probably from Winterfell, not that it matters.

it indeed a big shame. Every time when GRRM mentioned this crowning in the story, he never forgot to emphasize " passed his own wife". He even told us aegon IV planned to crown his mistress in stead of his wife in other to publicly humiliate his wife. And this crowning story was mentioned in the same chapter when meera told story about HH! What did he want us to think? By your logic what aegon planned to do is not humiliation. Aemon dragon knight was stupid to hide as knight of tears to crown Nareys.
Rhaegar can do whatever he want to honor or appraise lyanna more privately. Why did rhaegar need to honor lyanna publicly by simply dishonoring his own innocent wife?
For people who wanted to make rhaegar look better in crowning, please imagine your husband or wife gave a huge buch of shinning red roses on valentine's day on the crowed street to another younger woman in front of you and thousands of people. See if he or she can get a free pass from you by saying: dear, this woman was helping a poor baby/homeless/whatever, this is the only way I can publicly honor her! I bet you will remember this shame in your whole life.
Rhaegar was in deep desire, he just simply forgot his reputation and his wife, he wanted to present his love to Lyanna, something like: I know this improper, but this is the thing I did for love.

[Rippounet]

OP: good job weaving speculation and facts. I would just point out that, at least it seems to me, you take for granted that What Daenerys saw in the House of the Undying Ones actualyy happened, as if she was watching a recording. I don't believe that's the way way it was presented. We are given sufficient clues to identify the three persons in the room without much doubt, Rhaegar, Elia, and Aegon son of Rhaegar. But Rhaegar looks at Daenerys and tells her, not Elia, that there must be another.

Bear in mind that Aemon confirmed that Rhaegar thought Aegon was TPtwP. I don't take the vision at face value, but I believe Aemon.

[OuttaOldtown]

Thats the complete opposite of what I was saying. I am saying there isnt a romance. The romance is just filled in by shippers.

"No one knew", said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face."

And then Val is wearing...

"Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. [...] Val patted the long bone knife on her hip."

Then she tells Jon:

"These clothes were given to me by Dalla, I would sooner not get bloodstains all over them."

The symbolism of the device on the Mystery Knight's (Lyanna's) shield & Dalla's pin/brooch are a match. In my opinion this was the trigger that caused Rhaegar to do all that he did.

[Nic.]

I think this is looking too deeply into things.  He can't have a third child with his wife, but knows he must have a third to complete the prophecy.  So what better way to have a third child than with a woman he already admires (may have feelings for and she seems to have something for him) hence he goes out looking for her. The so called kidnapping is more about making sure Lyanna is safe from harm until the birth of his child.  I'm pretty sure Rhaeggar's mindset was more focused on the prophecy and saving the realm ultimately than the ongoing tensions between the houses at the time.  Heck the vision clearly seem to show that he's focused on this one thing.  As for the garland, again let's leave it at the most logical conclusion.  Rhaeggar felt that the true hero/winner of the tournament was Lyanna hence he gives her the garland. 

[purple-eyes]

I think this is looking too deeply into things.  He can't have a third child with his wife, but knows he must have a third to complete the prophecy.  So what better way to have a third child than with a woman he already admires (may have feelings for and she seems to have something for him) hence he goes out looking for her. The so called kidnapping is more about making sure Lyanna is safe from harm until the birth of his child.  I'm pretty sure Rhaeggar's mindset was more focused on the prophecy and saving the realm ultimately than the ongoing tensions between the houses at the time.  Heck the vision clearly seem to show that he's focused on this one thing.  As for the garland, again let's leave it at the most logical conclusion.  Rhaeggar felt that the true hero/winner of the tournament was Lyanna hence he gives her the garland. 

 

Agree. But only has a different opinion on the last sentence. 

Rhaegar fell in love so he presented the garland with the tile of "queen of love and beauty" to Lyanna to show his love.

This is apparently an irrational move. Only love and desire can make him do this, not respect or praise or honor for her great deed.

Because, nobody else in 7K will think queen of love and beauty is a reward for winner or hero. it is still a scandal.

If he is rational at that moment, he had plenty of time to ask his wife to be absent from the last day of tourney to avoid being insulted and still he can honor Lyanna.  

He is mad in love so he forgot his duty. 

Like Robb Stark, mad in love (or potion) so he forgot his duty and marriage promise. 

[Rippounet]

I think this is looking too deeply into things.  He can't have a third child with his wife, but knows he must have a third to complete the prophecy.  So what better way to have a third child than with a woman he already admires (may have feelings for and she seems to have something for him) hence he goes out looking for her. The so called kidnapping is more about making sure Lyanna is safe from harm until the birth of his child.  I'm pretty sure Rhaeggar's mindset was more focused on the prophecy and saving the realm ultimately than the ongoing tensions between the houses at the time.  Heck the vision clearly seem to show that he's focused on this one thing.  As for the garland, again let's leave it at the most logical conclusion.  Rhaeggar felt that the true hero/winner of the tournament was Lyanna hence he gives her the garland. 

This is what the reader might be expected to think at this point in the series. Hence, it is almost certainly false. :)

The whole R+L element was built as a huge mystery throughout the whole series. I very much doubt that the most obvious explanation is the truth. I don't agree that this is "looking too deeply into things." In fact, this whole scenario has extremely little textual support ; it is merely the interpretation the reader is tempted to give to events with what little information he has. It is perfectly possible to come up with alternative scenarios which make way more sense.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Crowning Lyanna was done out of love , but not out of love for Lyanna , but for love of father . The last thing Rhaegar was asked to do was to discover the identity of the mystery knight , he gave to Lyanna to show Aerys  the KOLT is a weak woman so don't fear.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Rhaegar was a dutiful man . His job was to find out who was the KoLT , there is no evidence that either Lyanna was that mystery knight or Rhaegar and Lyanna ever met , but here is the only thing we know . 1 . The shield resembles the weirwood trees sacred by those who worships the Old Gods. 2.The Northmen follow the old gods . By giving the crown to Lyanna he is putting the north on notice .