Astronomy of Planetos: The Solar Cycle and the Three Attempts to Forge Lightbringer

[LmL]

Getting lost is probably a better shot for personal happiness, but most likely he won't get away with that.

[Rippounet]

Hey LmL, tried a random search on <asearchoficeandfire.com> to try the search engine and found a quote you might like:

That night she lay upon her thin blanket on the hard ground, staring up at the great red comet. The comet was splendid and scary all at once. "The Red Sword," the Bull named it; he claimed it looked like a sword, the blade still red-hot from the forge. When Arya squinted the right way she could see the sword too, only it wasn't a new sword, it was Ice, her father's greatsword, all ripply Valyrian steel, and the red was Lord Eddard's blood on the blade after Ser Ilyn the King's Justice had cut off his head. Yoren had made her look away when it happened, yet it seemed to her that the comet looked like Ice must have, after.

A Clash of Kings, Arya I

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Shit i messed thing up there , i wrote my comment in your comment. What i was saying is that i actually dont support any of the Lannister- Targ theories. I just tought it was more likely that Cersei and

Jaime where Targs than Tyrion.

That's okay. I found the comments. RhaeRhae did see to think that TDtwP has to be one of the heads. You're right that TDtwP would not have a ride a dragon, but wouldn't that be kind of a let-down with actual dragons in play now?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

<snip

“One thousand. Never more, and never less. A new flame is kindled for every one that gutters out.”

<snip

They better hope Mel is wrong then. Otherwise (no pun intended, of course) TGO has them beat with his thousand...and one.

[wiredup]

Great read as I have come to expect from you (and the others who help and challenge your theories also). Great job.

Btw, Benerro speaking with gestures reminds me of Roman orators and that can be tricky. The fist is an interesting one. Yep, I think it matches well with a moon. Also, according to some quick searches, Pliny the Elder refers to the closed fist in roman society:

" The pressing of the thumb on the closed fist corresponds to a Roman gesture of well-wishing that Pliny the Elder attests as being used frequently in Roman society."

And I immediately think about The Fist of The First Men.

[LmL]

At the center of the grove an ancient weirwood brooded over a small pool where the waters were black and cold. The heart tree, Ned called it. The weirwoods bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands.

Old gods have a thousand eyes and one, PLUS a thousand bloodstained hands. Team R'hllor has one fiery hand with a thousand fiery fingers and one fiery eye.

What's cool about this is that either way, you get a thousand and one. That shows this concept is bigger than just a reference to Bloodraven - this is a deeper pattern. One eye - God's Eye, the fire moon superimposed on the sun - and a thousand eyes - the thousand dragon meteors which poured forth.

Wiredup: thanks very much. Yes, the first. I've been wondering about that place... so far north of the Wall. It's really odd...

[LmL]

Hey LmL, tried a random search on <asearchoficeandfire.com> to try the search engine and found a quote you might like:

LOVE this quote. I used a bit of it way back in my very first essay. I think that every single description people hang on the comet is actually part of the truth. I plan to go over this in my upcoming swords essay.. But if you go back to ACOK and read them all, I think you can see that they all have part of the truth. :)

That's and please continue to share anything you catch that sounds relevant, even if someone has shared it before these things get lost and it's good to be reminded of stuff. There are so many quotes floating around in my head and in my notes.

[LmL]

“Sam.” Jon stood. “What is it? Do you want to see the sword?”

If the others had known, no doubt Sam did too. The fat boy shook his head. “I was heir to my father’s blade once,” he said mournfully. “Heartsbane. Lord Randyll let me hold it a few times, but it always scared me. It was Valyrian steel, beautiful but so sharp I was afraid I’d hurt one of my sisters.

I haven't gone into this yet, because I am saving it for my swords essay, but every single name of a Valyrian steel sword refers to the comet - moon collision in some way. "Heartsbane" is obvious - the red sword plunged into Nissa Nissa's heart. And here, Sam is afraid of hurting his sister with it. Terrific stuff.

[LmL]

New shit... new shit...

Children of the Dawn Part Two is here.

[Mithras]

“Sam.” Jon stood. “What is it? Do you want to see the sword?”

If the others had known, no doubt Sam did too. The fat boy shook his head. “I was heir to my father’s blade once,” he said mournfully. “Heartsbane. Lord Randyll let me hold it a few times, but it always scared me. It was Valyrian steel, beautiful but so sharp I was afraid I’d hurt one of my sisters.

I haven't gone into this yet, because I am saving it for my swords essay, but every single name of a Valyrian steel sword refers to the comet - moon collision in some way. "Heartsbane" is obvious - the red sword plunged into Nissa Nissa's heart. And here, Sam is afraid of hurting his sister with it. Terrific stuff.

That should make you think that Bloodstone Emperor impregnated Amethyst Empress and she gave birth to a child. Perhaps this couple was the people who pracited incest and the root of Valyrian incest practice depends on this event.

[LmL]

I think this is the case, Mithras. I've been certain for a while that AA = BSE and NN = AE, but maybe haven't thought about everything that means. Since the Lightbringer myth has the hidden procreative layer, we should be looking for offspring as well as murder. This does indeed imply incest (very possibly the rapey kind - ew) between BSE and AE. If fits with the Valyrians being inheritors of the BSE's magic.

[Mithras]

If all the warmth of the Amethyst Empress went into the special child, that leaves her as a cold entity hungry for what we call life. In Other words, the Great Other or the Corpse Queen.

ETA: the Others are associated with giant spiders which points to a female influence.

[Mithras]

A crackpot theory about Dawn:

It is said to be made from the heart of a fallen star. Some people suggested that the heart might have belonged to a fallen Star(k). I suggest that perhaps the fallen Stark was the Night's King. The Corpse Queen might have created the Dawn from the seeds of the Night's King. That could explain the similarity between the Others and Dawn in regards to their appearance.

Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too.

He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

Thus, after the Night’s King was brought down, Dawn was not destroyed but sent to as South as they could get. The knightly order of the Sword of the Morning was formed. Because of the corrupting influence of the sword, the office was not made hereditary. Only those with the highest virtues were allowed to wield the sword.

That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.

Recall that Jaime was knighted by Arthur and when he touched Jaime’s shoulders with Dawn, he was cut. Dawn tasted the blood of Jaime. Was there a transfer of some malignant influence because Jaime was not spiritually strong enough?

And he'd held his own against the Smiling Knight, though it was Ser Arthur who slew him. What a fight that was, and what a foe. The Smiling Knight was a madman, cruelty and chivalry all jumbled up together, but he did not know the meaning of fear.

Oh, f**k. According to Old Nan, the Night’s King did not know fear too and that was his downfall.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Mithras, for a while now I've had an idea that Dawn is the sword of The Great Other and was sent to House Dayne for safekeeping. Starfall is the southernmost First Men house in Westeros, so if the Others were to get that far all of Westeros would be screwed.

So are you thinking the timeline is off then? Because Night's King was supposed to have happened 8,000 years ago, but Dawn is supposed to be 10,000 years old, roughly.

[Mithras]

I thnk the ancestor of the Daynes is a child of Corpse Queen/Great Other/Amethyst Empress and the Night's King (Stark). That might explain the violet eyes in the Daynes. The child was spared by his uncle Brandon the Breaker due to the taboo of kinslaying. He was sent to far South and the sword, which was his by right, was also sent with him. But only for the condition that he is allowed to wield it if he is worthy of it.

[LmL]

Oh man, I am just really going to have bang out my swords essay. Everyone is talking about the swords right now.

Lady Blizzardborn I have some similar ideas. I do think the original Ice (Dawn) was brought south by a Stark, just as Ned did after the ToJ. Similarly, we have the Last Hero fighting with what sounds like Azor Ahai's red sword, implying that it somehow came to the Wall. It sounds like a switcheroo went down.

Lady Blizz, you've read my new essay right? Part 2 of Children of the Dawn? I get into some of the comparison between Dawn and icy things, much of which supports your general line of thinking. :)

[LmL]

I thnk the ancestor of the Daynes is a child of Corpse Queen/Great Other/Amethyst Empress and the Night's King (Stark). That might explain the violet eyes in the Daynes. The child was spared by his uncle Brandon the Breaker due to the taboo of kinslaying. He was sent to far South and the sword, which was his by right, was also sent with him. But only for the condition that he is allowed to wield it if he is worthy of it.

So much of this end up in semantic circles, trying to figure out which names refer to separate people or one person who did different things. There some level of info suggesting that AA might = NK, and if so, NN as the corpse queen isn't crazy. I don't tend to buy it, because I think she died in Essos at the beginning of the Long Night, but the idea of one person playing two roles is certainly something we have to keep in mind, so it's not impossible.

[Knight and Dayne]

Zombie NN? Same actors, different stage?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I thnk the ancestor of the Daynes is a child of Corpse Queen/Great Other/Amethyst Empress and the Night's King (Stark). That might explain the violet eyes in the Daynes. The child was spared by his uncle Brandon the Breaker due to the taboo of kinslaying. He was sent to far South and the sword, which was his by right, was also sent with him. But only for the condition that he is allowed to wield it if he is worthy of it.

But House Dayne is older than House Stark and was founded a couple thousand years before Night's King's reign. Thus my question about the timeline.

Oh man, I am just really going to have bang out my swords essay. Everyone is talking about the swords right now.

Lady Blizzardborn I have some similar ideas. I do think the original Ice (Dawn) was brought south by a Stark, just as Ned did after the ToJ. Similarly, we have the Last Hero fighting with what sounds like Azor Ahai's red sword, implying that it somehow came to the Wall. It sounds like a switcheroo went down.

Lady Blizz, you've read my new essay right? Part 2 of Children of the Dawn? I get into some of the comparison between Dawn and icy things, much of which supports your general line of thinking. :)

Not yet but I'm looking forward to it. Hoping I can get it read this weekend. :)

[Mithras]

But House Dayne is older than House Stark and was founded a couple thousand years before Night's King's reign. Thus my question about the timeline.

I don't believe in that claim of the Daynes. If they have such a controversial ancestor whose father was erased from memory, they might have produced a false history to cover it.