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I really don't think they would wait to bring jon back Til season 7 that's way too long this isn't the same thing as bran who they put off for a year because he's not one of the biggest characters, although he's up there , just not at the level of Jon. And also because they were all caught up to brand book material they had to slow it down for him so they made room for other stuff while putting him on the back burner. Putting jon off Til seaaon 7 would almost be as bad writing as killing him for good

Amen!

I believe with all my being that Jon Snow will be reborn, but Kit saying he will not be back for season 6 kind of freaks me out. Even if they already filmed a couple scenes for next season I think it would be pretty lame to have such a central character be nonexistent for much of the penultimate season UNLESS his supposed death affects multiple storylines: Nights Watch massacred by the wildlings, Arya hears the news and it compels her to return to Westeros, the wall is destroyed by the White Walkers and then Jon's rebirth is revealed in the penultimate episode. If his temporary death acts as the catalyst that advances multiple stories forward in big ways I'm ok with that as long as he comes back!!!

Yes that would be interesting

Could they be going for a TOJ flashback at the very beginning of episode one of season 6? I hope so.

I'm begging for it! The TOJ would be very fangasmic as a flashback!!

I think you guys are half right. I don't see it just being in the first episode. I forsee them building it up all season, cutting in flashbacks, maybe via Bran, like 1 or 2 couple minute scenes per episode. Then they'll reveal it in the last episode that Lyanna had a baby in the tower, then cut back into the present with Jon being rez'd. There was a casting call for 3 boys to play with swords, and the 3rd boy had to be the youngest, with green eyes. I'm willing to bet its Robert (Or Howland), Brandon and Eddard playing, and they'll start there as the first flashback.

I would Like this. Bran's going to see a lot.

My money is on the simple red witch resurrection.

Word!

"I've been worrying about Jon for years. He always comes back". - Sam Tarly

Yes, This is a major hint!

For those who think Jon can be raised by the Wall, we have Mel saying, to Jon, in response to him saying the Wall is no place for a woman:

"You are wrong. I have dreamed of your Wall, Jon Snow. Great was the lore that raised it, and great the spells locked beneath its ice. We walk beneath one of the hinges of the world. .....This is my place as it is yours, and soon enough you may have grave need of me. ... " (DwD 59)

While I do not know what the show will do, there is information in these lines to indicate that perhaps the Wall can resurrect Jon after all.

Raised by the wall? That would be interesting but doubtful. Any supporting book hints? It will be interesting to see what will happen with the Wall itself and what could be hiding in it.

GOT

"He could feel the great weight of all that ice pressing down on him, as if it were about to topple, and the somehow Jon knew that if it fell, the world fell with it."

Yes this!

IIRC, she is on show Arya's list for taking Gendry away

Oh nice! I hope Arya comes to the wall!

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They're called Jon Snow truthers because the truth is that he's coming back...



Lawl so much Christian symbolism here. Even Ellaria's "last kiss" this season...





Yes I ve also seen it. For me Jon's stabbing was another. When Jon sees the that sign with "traitor" on it, it reminded me of the crucifixion. Or when Jesus was hanged next to two criminals, they also had signs above their heads that described the crimes they committed, and perhaps one was also a traitor? I cant quite recall specifically, but I thought there was something similar about the scene. And it is obviously build on the idea of a messianic character that will be revived, perhaps a bit like the Azot Ahai prophesies. But I seriously doubt that is what the producer where going for, or that he has though about the scene in such a manner,or perhaps they did I dont know.






Yes, absolutely, Dany and Tyrion and Arya, esp as Maisie is so admired for her young acting talents, have been far more popular on the show, and during her seasons with Jamie, Brienne was just as popular as the "God, you're dull" but earnest Jon Snow, in fact Ygritte was probably more popular than Jon then and a far more engaging character.



The show Jon is a good guy that you want around and are rooting for but it is only when he was unexpectedly killed that viewers realised how much they liked and maybe needed him in this increasingly dark world, and as of right now I would argue he is the most popular character but certainly was not for the first 4 seasons or until Hardhome.





Yes, Jon's arc start quite slowly, I think this is actually done on purpose because it gives GRRM more time to focus on all of the other characters. You really start to connect more with Jon in book 3 or season 3/4. It is therefore that you get the feeling that he grows on you slowly as his character develops. The story basically first focus's on Ned and then on Robb and Catelyn, if we look at it from a Stark perspective. Jon also doesn't not have a lot of power or agency at the start, he starts as a new recruit in a military type of setting so he cant affect much change on his own. It is really when Jon starts to gain power that people click with him or become fully onboard with his character. In the show it starts around season 4 and builds up to when finally becomes the Lord Commander and the fight at Hardhome. People really do seem to like Lord Commander Snow, therefore Jon's popularity has increased. In the books it actually feels quite similar.


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This problem is already manifested itself within the books to a larger degree then in the show. We have lost a lot of fan favorites such as Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Oberyn and even the darker characters such as Tywin and Joffrey. They have been replaced by the Dorninsh and the Iron Islanders, which I am sorry to say for the most part just aren't as good or interesting as most of the characters we have lost. In the show it manifested itself this season with the Dornish plot. So by the time that we get to season 5, there really aren't that many people left to root for, or there are not many of our originals left. If Jon does not appear in season 6, then his screentime will obviously be used on more of the Dornish plot and the Iron Islanders, which for me personally would not be a good trade off.

I have to stop and post this. While I think it likely he'll be resurrected, I kind of secretly hope he doesn't--which I'll be honest and up front with as I'm sick and tired of fakeout deaths and resurrections and would just like someone to remain dead for once. Having said that though:

I have to respond to this as it essentially comes from the source of inspiration that GRRM took from the novel series: Les Rois Maudits by Maurice Druon. Characters die and are replaced with newer ones slowly one by one, until all of the "original cast" dies in the last of the original books of that series (the new last book of that series, number seven, being written decades later). Slowly over the course of the novels we track as the French nobility scheme and plot and widdle each other down in a fight over who really owns the county of Burgundy, until at long last they've killed nearly everyone off who began the books and inadvertently started the Hundred Years War (which Martin has gone on record as saying he's taking as much influence from that war as he was the Wars of the Roses--and he didn't write the introduction to the English translation to Les Rois Maudits (aka The Accursed Kings) calling it the "original Game of Thrones" for nothing).

So the idea that "he can't be killing off everyone only to replace them with new characters" reaction to me seems entirely what is likely occurring--given his source of inspiration. It comes from his source of inspiration to begin with--and it's a very bleak story to be quite honest, about how a bunch of selfish, greedy nobles run the great kingdom of France into the ground and pave the way for a hundred years of on again-off again war with England through their short-sightedness and avarice. Likewise we see a similar plot in Martin's series concerning who sits the Iron Throne--with everyone being Nero and fiddling as Rome is burning and the threat and the danger at the Wall presses down on them from the North and Daenerys gathers in the East. Recall that in his original letter to sell the series Martin framed the entire book series in this manner that the Kingdom is too focused on playing their Game of Thrones and ill prepares for the coming threats from the East (Dany) and the North (the Others) to the Kingdom as a whole. While Dany might be St. Dany in the TV show, her coming will still be violent and bloody no matter.

In order to be ill-prepared you need Jon Snow out of the way for a time, narratively speaking. Jon is just too effective and too focused on preparing and meeting the Others as a threat, and if the Seven Kingdoms are to be ill-prepared because they were all too focused on who sits on a damn piece of iron, then he needs to be gotten out of the way for a time. Having Jon be gone for Season 6 works well for this, as it thus becomes a catalyst for events. Just like how Varys killing Kevan and Pycelle at the end of ADWD works--because it gets rid of the stability Kevan brought to Westeros and leaves the Kingdom vulnerable and easy for conquest by Aegon. Likewise I see killing Jon as likewise getting rid of a potential source of stability and acts as a catalyst for the story that comes after.

And all the while the smallfolk live, suffer, and die as the nobles play their pointless game--an indictment against such games, which has been a constant theme of the book series and to a lesser extent the TV show (though not as much as the Book Series).

Also should mention that if things go pear-shaped because of Jon's absence it makes it all the more meaningful when he returns, for those who are looking forward to it. Again, I think it likely, but I am secretly hoping for it not to be so.

And one final thing to consider: The original six novels of Les Rois Maudits ends just as the Hundred Years War is beginning, with the main instigator (who quite obviously seems to have been some inspiration for Tyrion) dying as he's sailing back to France having convinced Edward III to challenge his cousin for the throne of France in a last ditch effort to get Burgundy back with Edward III as King granting it to him. However, he's dying of a disease and knows as he looks from the deck of his ship that he'll die before reaching France and all he can do is call out how unfair and cruel the gods are to torment him as such by tantalizing him so on his deathbed. Other characters who've been introduced are set up to fight the Hundred Years War--they're new and brash and have replaced old favorites, but our story ends when the last of our cast of original characters die with the second stringers essentially there to carry on after the novels have finished.

Ultimately at the end of Martin's book series I predict most of the main cast who's been with us since the beginning who hasn't been killed off dying in the last book, sacrificing themselves in the fight against the Others they were ill-prepared for, but ultimately met, fought and won against, winning the day for humanity, but at the cost of their lives.

And the second stringers--and unlikely heroes who rose when our main heroes were killed off are left afterwards to pick up the pieces after the first stringers have all died and rebuild in the aftermath, but the story doesn't focus on what the second stringers do after the first stringers die, but instead is a story of how the first stringers lived and then died so that humanity could be saved. The future of Westeros will, I'm guessing, be built by the likes of Samwell Tarly--not outright heroic characters, but survivors and second-stringers.

There's a reason in Westeros there's a story called "the Last Hero", meaning that heroes have not come again since and the unheroic have had to live in a post-Hero world, and do as best as they can, with their world built by figures like Bran the Builder who is deified in hindsight, but in all accounts was likely a man just trying to pick up the pieces after the Long Night and likely wasn't who anyone would have seen as bringing peace and order during the Long Night itself. Samwell Tarly and other such characters like him, like Podrick Payne I'd throw in there as well that I'm guessing will help rebuild Westeros after the tumultuous battle with the Others and found new dynasties and legendary man traditions as they help the survivors pick up the pieces--but they themselves will not continue our story as they do so, but instead end with the last of the main heroes dying bringing about such a world for them to do so in.

That's at least what I think is likely given Martin's source of inspiration.

So to bring it round again, I think of Jon's death as narratively important given that he otherwise stabilizes the situation at the Wall too easily. Jon has to be gotten out of the way to be a catalyst for what comes next, and when he returns it's all the more important that he left in the first place.

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^ Great take, I like the idea of killing of the stabilizers, that said we haven't really seen the second stringers come up and become first stringers per se, at least not since the RW where Boltons replace the Starks as the dominant Northern power. Rather the cast of important characters just seems to keep shrinking. Also, I'm thinking about the outline GRRM wrote years ago where most of the Stark kids survive to the end. Obviously that may have changed, but something to ponder I guess.





It was interesting how Sansa was seen as a traitor in that original story.


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They're called Jon Snow truthers because the truth is that he's coming back...

Lawl so much Christian symbolism here. Even Ellaria's "last kiss" this season...

Yeah it kind of pisses me off. The "INRI" thing with Jon too, and the Four Horsemen White Walkers, not to mention the entire storyline in King's Landing revolving around the "Sparrow" Reformation... They cater a bit too much to the average American imo. With the high amount of Christian ppl in America, it is a very different audience than in the rest of the Western countries in general.

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Yeah it kind of pisses me off. The "INRI" thing with Jon too, and the Four Horsemen White Walkers, not to mention the entire storyline in King's Landing revolving around the "Sparrow" Reformation... They cater a bit too much to the average American imo. With the high amount of Christian ppl in America, it is a very different audience than in the rest of the Western countries in general.

Even most Western religions have a Jesus type figure, and if fandoms right thats what JS is.long night, JS resurrected and lets daylight rise again. Zeitgeist

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I like most of these thoughts. Highlighting issues/response.

It is actually quite possible for Dany to be Azor Ahai or the Prince that was Promised, most of the theories does actually fit her quite well.

Yes. The idea that she is just not moral enough in a narrative that reclaims a child murder - almost - is silly. Dany has made the mistakes of a youth thrust into impossible situations with virtually no support as Aemon made clear.

But what this Red Priestess is saying is actually interesting. Varys and Tyrion are telling her that it is difficult to trust the Red God because Melisandre backed Stannis, and he obviously wasn't the chosen one since he failed to capture Winterfell, and the Priestess answers that things happen for a reason and that Melisandre is actually in the right place...

But despite that all of these prophesies does not seem to mean that much in the show. This is the first time in five years where we have actually heard about the one who was promised. We have never even heard the words Azor Ahai, therefore it is difficult to say if these prophesies are actually that important, or if it is just something that drives a character on a personal level. Like for example Stannis and Cercei's actions are driven by prophesy, and perhaps one could say the same for Dany as well to degree. These prophesies might never become important on a more meta level, but the actions of the characters are important on the overall story.

I certainly would not mind if Jon is never Azor Ahai. I ve always liked the fact that Jon had to join the Nights Watch as a green recruit. He more or less had to work his way up, I guess that makes him a bit more relateable at times. He is a man of action who relays more on his own judgement. But I guess if he is resurrected then the mystical side would obviously become more important to him.

Jon doesn't have to be AA to be key and be around for the climax. Using that word has made me realize that Jon's death weakens whatever climax might be coming. I've never been more convinced that Martin has written himself into a plot hole.

A lot of the prophesies becomes more complicated when you really think about them. For example the dragon has three heads, which also hasn't made it onto the show. It has taken Dany four books and 4 seasons to take one joyride on a dragon, I dont see how there would be enough time for other people to learn how to fly dragons, or to build up a connection with the dragons to be able to fly on that dragon. It sounds like quite a bonding session. I guess this would be where someone like Bran becomes more important. But even if they can control dragons, it wasn't dragons that ended the previous Long Night. There are still a lot of interesting things we dont know or understand about this story.

AA by himself might not be able to defeat the ww. After all: they KNOW his moves. They will be prepared.

I think that once Tyrion teaches Dany what he knows, it will be feasible for others to bond with the 2 remaining dragons. It is a magical experience, so it can happen instantly.

Yes it would really be a very, very terrible idea to not have Jon in season six, and it would be even worse if he is replaced by another actor. There are still a lot of people who are unhappy about Dario being recasted, and he isn't even such a big character. It would really push people's believe and patience to replace Jon with someone else.

There are other considerations as well, such contracts for starters. Kit Harington is one of their A level actors, there could very well be clauses that he is suppose to get a certain amount of screen time within a season. They could have left Sophie Turner out of this season for example, but they basically invented a plot for her to keep her in this season. If Jon is suppose to be alive there is really no reason whatsoever to keep him from season six, they have already created a cliffhanger for 10 months, they dont need to drag it out further, and they would want to keep Kit Harington in season 6 if Jon isn't dead. It would be quite silly if they had to pay him for season 6, but he sits around on the sidelines.

Thank you so much: too many cliffhangers require too many resolution scenes.

They have certainly done a good job of making people doubt that Jon might not come back. People really need to took at the timing for the EW article. The article was done 6 months ago! And it was released straight after the episode.
It was planned like this for a reason, and every single news outlet is just quoting or rehashing that same article. No one has done an interview with Kit Harington since the final. At the time of this article the season 6 scripts was not even done yet, Kit Harington actually might have thought that he would not be in the next season. Or he is just out right lying, which is also very possible, he cant exactly tell people that he will be there for the next season. But he is definitely still running around with his Jon hair, and he does not have many new projects listed.

The interview with Dan and David is also very carefully worded, and only one person asked them if Jon could be resurrected. And they did not really answer the question directly. Interviewers should be asking them who Jon's mother is, if Jon is dead then surely it would not matter if they told anyone.

Good point: most of us don't have the time to notice all those finer points although I did think about it. The London video was end of March tho'.





\Well they will have record braking viewership numbers for episode 1 of season 6! I think Jon's popularity has increased a lot these past two seasons. During this season he was often the most tweeted about character. Jon's arc is interesting in that way, I found it similar in both the books and the show, his character grows on you as he develops. He does not start off as the most interesting character it builds up over time.

I dont think it is just as simple as losing Jon. It was also the general feeling of the show towards the end. I got a similar feeling from the books as well, so in that respect the show and the books at least feels similar in the feeling that they emote. The whole story just feels quite dark and very depressing, it can all feel a bit pointless. Even if Jon perhaps wasn't someone's favorite it can still feel pointless. Jon was at least the last really good or honorable character in a position of leadership. The fans have been on a roller coaster with this story, GRRM has used a lot of misdirection. At first we are meant to believe that Ned Stark is the main protagonist and then he is killed off. Then we are meant to lash our hopes onto Robb and Catelyn, while they and practically the whole Northern cause are basically decimated at the Red Wedding. Now we have Jon left he is acting like a real protagonist, we see the real threat to the realm and he is the only character who is actively doing something about it, and what do you know he gets killed as well.
At some stage people just dont want to be mislead anymore, it is good if you feel as if characters can actually die, but at the same time you dont want to create a situation where you dont care enough about anyone because people die all of the time. It requires a certain finesse and balance between creating suspense or apathy. People need something to feel hopeful about within the story, it doesn't mean that the story should be all rainbows and happy endings, but if you dont have a reason to hope that something good will happen once in a while for the few good people within the realm, then there might not be that much of a reason watch anymore. You can just as easily watch the news. This is something I had hoped that Dan and David would change or improve from the books, they did not need so many cliffhangers at the end.
It would have been much better if Jon was killed in episode 9 for example,and then resurrected at the end of episode 10. It would still have been an interesting and shocking development, and it would have given people something to feel hopeful about for the new season. Just like Dany was found alive in the pyre at the end of season 1, that was a great moment and it really give people something to look forward to for the new season. But instead we were left with a few very dark moments and one of the favorite characters being stabbed to death.

In all honesty these character deaths are perhaps slowly starting to cause some narrative problems. Every season some characters die and they are replaced by new characters. This becomes quite problematic when you reach the 5th season and there are only two seasons left. Especially if you kill off someone like Jon Snow who has been right there since the start and who has had a main or big focus on him right from the start. He has had a lot of time to grow and develop as a character, you will never be able to create the same growth and development towards another character in two seasons, and as a result the story might suffer.
This problem is already manifested itself within the books to a larger degree then in the show. We have lost a lot of fan favorites such as Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Oberyn and even the darker characters such as Tywin and Joffrey. They have been replaced by the Dorninsh and the Iron Islanders, which I am sorry to say for the most part just aren't as good or interesting as most of the characters we have lost. In the show it manifested itself this season with the Dornish plot. So by the time that we get to season 5, there really aren't that many people left to root for, or there are not many of our originals left. If Jon does not appear in season 6, then his screentime will obviously be used on more of the Dornish plot and the Iron Islanders, which for me personally would not be a good trade off.

A lot of people will keep on watching this show, it is one the best and the most popular shows around. But I think these small issues are creeping in and with Jon's death on top of it, it might cause some people to lose interest. I personally would still watch the show, but I would understand if other people might not be interested in watching the show.


Basically if I have to admit, I just dont generally think this was such an inspired writing choice from GRRM to suddenly kill Jon off. His death creates a different type of frustration then something like the Red Wedding. The last two novels are sprinkled with fake out deaths already. So this creates a situation where you are frustrated to see another cliffhanger and where it would be really frustrating to kill off another Stark without revealing his parents. And at the same time it is also frustrating to think of another magical resurrecting or another fake out death. At least the show has handed this situation a bit better, since there are much less fake out deaths in the show. In the books I sincerely hope that Jon is just injured and that he will recover naturally, I think that would be the best outcome. But in the show I can understand why they would not have time for a lengthy recovery. I basically want to see a big payoff for this whole decision or situation.

Yes to the red in above/ bold wouldn't work.

I hope Jon's resurrection is not dragged out for too long at the start of season 6. I think he would need to be resurrected quite quickly. I think they cut Stannis's arc short because they might give a bit of his arc to Jon. Ramsay could still even send the Pink Letter to the wall, most of the Night Watch will properly be decimated one way or the other.
It would also be great if Sansa actually goes to the Wall, and to have some sort of a Stark reunion at last, but I am not holding my breath, they will very likely just miss each other or something. Davos can still be send on his mission to find Rickon. And Jon would basically realize that if he really wants to fight the White Walkers he would have to unite the whole North.

He already knows that no one can stop them short of Kingslanding latitude. What he doesn't know is how depleted the whole realm is and how incompetent leaders in the South are. I mean really, really incompetent and wounded too. Best fighters are in jail or have had some psychological breakdown or are sick/dead.

Melissandre has seen herself walking on the battlements of Winterfell, and she has seen the Bolton banners burn. This might be Jon's quest in season 6, one bastard facing another. In the books Jon might be send out North of the Wall again, but I cant see that the show would be interested in that. Hopefully we will get some form of the Northern conspiracy.

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In addition: NW still has a reason to fight: the WWs, but they won't because their aren't enough of them to do anything. At best, an even smaller group will preside over the Wall falling.



I really like the idea that the wall itself 'saves' Jon and resurrects/heals him. Melissandre might just be there to facilitate this, to get Jon in and ice chamber, to move closer to Davos (no idea how!!!)



Melissandre does want to fight the WW and she is really shaken by Stannis' destruction because even IF IF IF he survived, he now has no resources.



Who is going to send Davos to find Rickon? There are no characters at the wall to do this unless Sansa arrives there which is possible. Walking in winter to the wall without food or resources? If we had seen Davos leave the wall in episode 10, that would make some sense.



I always feared the 'end' of this story would be a narrative mess. I won't defend D&D for their choices this season: most of them were dumb. Putting Sansa at Winterfell wasn't perse dumb, but revictimizing her through her own choice was.



Maybe the real reason behind all of this is to allow Martin to get out the next book, but it didn't make for good tv plotting.



This is the biggest tv mystery/hype since who shot jr.



Jon disappearing is just not okay with this reader/viewer. He doesn't have to win the ir or even survive the climax, but he does need to be around to bring together all these threads.



Martin's gift was in creating a believable and fascinating world, populated by more cultures and sub-cultures than we have ever seen drawn before (if anyone can suggest a competitor for this, I would appreciate feedback)



However, his weakness is drawing together all the threads he invents. Even the most brilliant minds the planet has ever seen have not worked with this much narrative complexity.



D&D need Martin to consult very closely from now on and it seems he is booked, booked, booked, so that is not going to happen.

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He already knows that no one can stop them short of Kingslanding latitude. What he doesn't know is how depleted the whole realm is and how incompetent leaders in the South are. I mean really, really incompetent and wounded too. Best fighters are in jail or have had some psychological breakdown or are sick/dead.



Quoting myself to expound: the realm/planet is going to need dragons and other magical forces to defeat the ww this time.



Why else set up three magical protagonists?:



Dany


Bran


Jon -- assuming he is not dead/resurrected/healed -- I prefer healed as mentioned above. There could be a bit of magic healing, that would fly.



Is Bran going to live under a tree forever? All that suffering for nothing? Jojen was wrong about Bran's importance? All the seers in the story are fundamentally wrong, not just misguided/imperfect?

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I have to respond to this as it essentially comes from the source of inspiration that GRRM took from the novel series: Les Rois Maudits by Maurice Druon. Characters die and are replaced with newer ones slowly one by one, until all of the "original cast" dies in the last of the original books of that series (the new last book of that series, number seven, being written decades later). Slowly over the course of the novels we track as the French nobility scheme and plot and widdle each other down in a fight (...)

Difference to ASOIF: They do not all die slowly over the course of the story. Characters in ASOIF die when their plot triggers a more interesting dynamic than their survival (Ned / RW being the most trivial examples).

Let's not forget that besides two, all major characters in ASOIF are still alive, including Jon Snow. Do you think starting to get rid of them after 5/7 of the stretch done would be a good idea?

So the idea that "he can't be killing off everyone only to replace them with new characters" reaction to me seems entirely what is likely occurring--given his source of inspiration.

a) Inspiration, not adaption/copy

b ) I don't think GRRM is a writer who reads a story and says "I wanna write a story like this!". I think what he has learnt from Les Rois Maudit is that the author indeed can kill off main characters and the story can go on nevertheless, maybe even in a more interesting way.

In order to be ill-prepared you need Jon Snow out of the way for a time, narratively speaking. Jon is just too effective and too focused on preparing and meeting the Others as a threat, and if the Seven Kingdoms are to be ill-prepared because they were all too focused on who sits on a damn piece of iron, then he needs to be gotten out of the way for a time. Having Jon be gone for Season 6 works well for this, as it thus becomes a catalyst for events. Just like how Varys killing Kevan and Pycelle at the end of ADWD works--because it gets rid of the stability Kevan brought to Westeros and leaves the Kingdom vulnerable and easy for conquest by Aegon. Likewise I see killing Jon as likewise getting rid of a potential source of stability and acts as a catalyst for the story that comes after.

a) I buy the "ill-prepared factor" about Jon's death. But is he "too effective and too focused"? He faced some severe obstacles and opposition from within the NW and given the power of the Others any degree of focus and effectiveness might be worthless. So is his death really necessary to achieve this? Is it really inevitable? I don't think so, Especially if he p*sses of after a possible resurrection he cannot "manage" the defense at the Wall anymore. Enough "crazy plot twist" here for me, in addition to a likely character change after his resurrection.

b ) The "50%" argument" There are 20 episodes left - given that Jon survives do you think D&D leave him out for 50% of the remainder of the show? Maybe I'm a noob but it does not seem a clever move in my eyes.

Also should mention that if things go pear-shaped because of Jon's absence it makes it all the more meaningful when he returns, for those who are looking forward to it. Again, I think it likely, but I am secretly hoping for it not to be so.

Ultimately at the end of Martin's book series I predict most of the main cast who's been with us since the beginning who hasn't been killed off dying in the last book, sacrificing themselves in the fight against the Others they were ill-prepared for, but ultimately met, fought and won against, winning the day for humanity, but at the cost of their lives.

a) I also think so: JS and Danny will "sacrifice" themselves in the fight against the Others. GRRM said that the books will have a "bittersweet ending (similar to LOTR)" - for me this means that the realm will be saved (he also said that there WILL be somebody on the Iron Throne) and that some beloved/popular characters die and the ASOIF-world loses it's magic or so. This would also be an appropriate ending for the infamous Mr Snow. Because: what has he achieved so far? Why the mystery about his mother? IMO it would be out of line with GRRM's writing to set all these things up and let Jonny die now.

b ) but why will most of the main cast die? I don't really see this. I must say I really appreciate your comparison with "Les Rois Maudits" but personally I would not read too much into the similarities between both books. Deaths happen when they are good for the story in ASOIF not b/c "it also happens in another book which was an inspiration" (no offense, apologies). And Jon Snow's death - right now, IMO - does not make the story more interesting, at least I cannot see it but I am happy if you could educate me on this.

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