imaginepageant Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I get the feeling that book!Ramsey genuinely gets off on hurting others, but show!Ramsey does shit because it amuses him. Book!Ramsey is truly sadistic and malicious, whereas show!Ramsey is just batshit crazy. I do think book!Ramsey is more frightening, but I wonder how much of that is due to the book showing us Theon's thoughts—and therefore, just how very deeply Ramsey wrecked him—in a way that the show can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Well that's just it. The show being visual cannot give you people's crazy thought processes like GRRM can. RL is told only through perception and perspective, that's why third person omniscient viewpoint unreliable narrator is such genius, dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Velar Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Humanization definitely has occurred but do not we get POV from Theon in regards towards Ramsey and while he may be a complete vile sociopaths and is crude etc it is Theon own subjective view we read and which we see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornishwoman's Husband Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 One great difference I noticed beetween book and show Ramsay is that show Ramsay has martial skills unlike his book counterpart. In the books, Roose once told Theon that Ramsay swings the sword like a butcher hacking meat, which would mean he's a poor swordsman. That poor skill with the sword Ramsay learned from the original Reek. But, in the show Yara and her best killers among the Iromborn couldn't kill Ramsay even when he was half naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 One great difference I noticed beetween book and show Ramsay is that show Ramsay has martial skills unlike his book counterpart. In the books, Roose once told Theon that Ramsay swings the sword like a butcher hacking meat, which would mean he's a poor swordsman. That poor skill with the sword Ramsay learned from the original Reek. But, in the show Yara and her best killers among the Iromborn couldn't kill Ramsay even when he was half naked. Well obviously how would ironborn kill shirtless man with their throwing axes how i ask you? He brought out dogs That might be the worst scene on got and that's saying something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I was just re-watching parts of season 3 and 4, and it made me disagree with my original thoughts on show!Ramsay. He doesn't get really bad/annoying until season 5. Prior to season 5 he is very similar to his book counterpart. No he isn't as ugly or orcish as book!Ramsay, yet he is still just as crazy and terrifying. His whole toying with Theon seemed very similar to what book!Ramsay would do. The part where he said "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention!" was gold IMO. As was the "guessing game", allowing Theon to "escape" and pouring water on the floor in front of a thirsty Theon. Apart from his shirtless fight scene against the IB, Season 4 Ramsay was very good as well. The whole creepy dynamic he had while bathing Theon was good, as was his meeting with Roose. During that whole scene he really emanated craving for acceptance, as well as hatred and cruelty ( Im thinking the whole "oh sorry Reek... Robb Stark's dead" part.) Not much talked about, but his little pep talk to Theon before he entered Moat Caillin was good as well " Are you sure your not Theon? you look very much like a lord..... Remember what you are.... and what your not..." That and the whole Lion King scene between him and Roose afterward. Season 5 Ramsay.. while doing cruel things (flaying the lord and wife, flaying the old woman, raping Sansa etc.) just seemed more boring, silly and absurd. He just seemed much more hip, preppy, and"cool" than he was before, and I think it kind of brought the whole thing down. His whole gleeful,jabbering speech at dinner didn't seem very medieval or in Ramsay's character. Just my additional two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I was just re-watching parts of season 3 and 4, and it made me disagree with my original thoughts on show!Ramsay. He doesn't get really bad/annoying until season 5. Prior to season 5 he is very similar to his book counterpart. No he isn't as ugly or orcish as book!Ramsay, yet he is still just as crazy and terrifying. His whole toying with Theon seemed very similar to what book!Ramsay would do. The part where he said "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention!" was gold IMO. As was the "guessing game", allowing Theon to "escape" and pouring water on the floor in front of a thirsty Theon. Apart from his shirtless fight scene against the IB, Season 4 Ramsay was very good as well. The whole creepy dynamic he had while bathing Theon was good, as was his meeting with Roose. During that whole scene he really emanated craving for acceptance, as well as hatred and cruelty ( Im thinking the whole "oh sorry Reek... Robb Stark's dead" part.) Not much talked about, but his little pep talk to Theon before he entered Moat Caillin was good as well " Are you sure your not Theon? you look very much like a lord..... Remember what you are.... and what your not..." That and the whole Lion King scene between him and Roose afterward. Season 5 Ramsay.. while doing cruel things (flaying the lord and wife, flaying the old woman, raping Sansa etc.) just seemed more boring, silly and absurd. He just seemed much more hip, preppy, and"cool" than he was before, and I think it kind of brought the whole thing down. His whole gleeful,jabbering speech at dinner didn't seem very medieval or in Ramsay's character. Just my additional two cents Agreed the hobbit on a sugar rush trying to be scary only became a problem in season 5. That's not to say I don't think he was miscast Iwan just isn't scary And that dinner scene was properly terrible down to sansa rolling her eyes at ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 There is only one time where I thought D+D adapted Book Ramsay perfectly. Listen to the words of Ramsay's letter to Balon, and tell me that doesn't sound exactly like what book Ramsay would write: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA-wIlTNTt4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I like Iwan Rheon (really like his music), and originally I enjoyed him as Ramsay but there were several moments in Season 5 where I was grimacing at the portrayal. And he's too gosh darn short I tell you.. not a fan of the deviant hobbit portrayal. And yea, there was no way they could get away with half the stuff Ramsay does in the books. They nearly broke the internet with the wedding night rape scene, just imagine if they'd included an actual book!hunt or his wedding to poor Lady Hornood. :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 I like Iwan Rheon (really like his music), and originally I enjoyed him as Ramsay but there were several moments in Season 5 where I was grimacing at the portrayal. And he's too gosh darn short I tell you.. not a fan of the deviant hobbit portrayal. And yea, there was no way they could get away with half the stuff Ramsay does in the books. They nearly broke the internet with the wedding night rape scene, just imagine if they'd included an actual book!hunt or his wedding to poor Lady Hornood. :ack: Or if he made Theon "bend to the task" with Sansa, as he had to with Jeyne.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Or if he made Theon "bend to the task" with Sansa, as he had to with Jeyne.. That would have wrecked the show. I do not think the actors and actress would have allowed that but there are rumors the showriters wanted a more graphic wedding night and all 3 refused and it had to be edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Or if he made Theon "bend to the task" with Sansa, as he had to with Jeyne.. Oh good heavens.. t'would not have been good! That would have wrecked the show. I do not think the actors and actress would have allowed that but there are rumors the showriters wanted a more graphic wedding night and all 3 refused and it had to be edited. I'll have to look that up-- would you happen to have a link? That's just embarrassing if true :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion I Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 One great difference I noticed beetween book and show Ramsay is that show Ramsay has martial skills unlike his book counterpart. In the books, Roose once told Theon that Ramsay swings the sword like a butcher hacking meat, which would mean he's a poor swordsman. That poor skill with the sword Ramsay learned from the original Reek. But, in the show Yara and her best killers among the Iromborn couldn't kill Ramsay even when he was half naked. A sword is more like a hacking weapon than a rapier or a saber. And of course much heavier than either of these. You have to put much more effort in swinging a sword. Ramsay stabbing that soldier with his sword looked like him bluntly using a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Yeah it couldn't have been more graphic because they did lawl almost break the internet and they showed like nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I like Iwan Rheon (really like his music), and originally I enjoyed him as Ramsay but there were several moments in Season 5 where I was grimacing at the portrayal. And he's too gosh darn short I tell you.. not a fan of the deviant hobbit portrayal. And yea, there was no way they could get away with half the stuff Ramsay does in the books. They nearly broke the internet with the wedding night rape scene, just imagine if they'd included an actual book!hunt or his wedding to poor Lady Hornood. :ack: he's 5'8 which is only slightly shorter than average. that's a pretty normal height, he might seem shorter just cause Sophie turner is a really tall girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Oh good heavens.. t'would not have been good! I'll have to look that up-- would you happen to have a link? That's just embarrassing if true :ack: I do not have the link but I think Ewan opened up more on that scene after. He said he had to get psyched up just to do what we saw, insinuating that he knew his character was comitting a rape whereas he has just had consensual sex scenes with the character Myranda. I will try and find the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Listen, if you need to creatively show rape happen sometimes then I guess it is what it is but I mean handle it as delicately as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Show Ramsey is "inconsistent" but that doesn't make him "unrealistic", afterall many psychopaths in real life are actually quite capable of being likable charming people when the need calls for it whilst being brutal monsters when they can get away with it. A big difference really is that show Roose is a much different character, less openly "evil" so much as he is ruthless ambitious so Ramsey needs to conceal his psychotic nature from him somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Listen, if you need to creatively show rape happen sometimes then I guess it is what it is but I mean handle it as delicately as possible... Really? How could they have shown if any less delicately. It was off screen and you barely heard it but for a few seconds. It was handled very delicately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Really? How could they have shown if any less delicately. It was off screen and you barely heard it but for a few seconds. It was handled very delicately. Well, delicacy has only partly to do with how graphic you portray something. It's more the way they showed the repercussions I have a gripe with. For once, they really didn't need to make such a show of Sansa's cleavage in her talk with Theon the episode thereafter, that was like they were sexualizing her pitious state (I wonder why...). And then the way they try to show how Sansa 'keeps her strength' by being an ass to fellow abuse victim Theon or by suicidally deriding Ramsay (both examples for season5/Sansa lacking the empathy which was her trump card in season 4 and in the books). It's not what I expect a rape-victim to act like, much less how Sansa would try to get out of that horrible situation (courtesy is a lady's armour, you know). But to be completely honest, the things they say about Sansa 'being a player' in the Inside the episode clips is what really ticks me off, namely that they are argumenting for no long-term effects of these traumatic events because 'empowered' women can shrug rape off like it's nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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