Why I Think Jon Snow Is Dead and Gone

[A Ghost of Someone]

They aren't going to burn his body. Jon Snow = Kit Harrington. This isn't Doctor Who. Fans are attached to the actor in that role.

I will choke on my own tongue if his body burns to ashes. And I saw the smoke picture. Wasn't that much smoke so it's thin gruel. Long live Jon Snew!!

I am just saying, if that is what "appears" to happen next season, I bet it is a glamour and not him. Mel may burn someone else as a sacrafice to help bring him back (By Golly I'm for Olly!) but Jon Snow cannot stay dead forever.  He is too damn important to the end game.

[Spilt Pea Soup]

Oh yes!  Good point.  I will need this as comfort if they do burn the body in Ep. 1.

 

 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Oh yes!  Good point.  I will need this as comfort if they do burn the body in Ep. 1.

 

 

Hang in there Split Pea, he will be ok. not to worry.

[Valhalla Morghulis]

Mel creating a shadow baby/demon that slaughtered Renly was far more awe-some than drunken Thoros somehow resurrecting Beric so even tho Mel was wrong about Stannis, but even then she was going over to Jon before and knew about Ygritte, her being able to resurrect Jon will work perfectly well in the show.

 

I don't think there will be any more burnings, there must be a quota on the number of uses, like saying cnut.

[A Ghost of Someone]

The whole Thoros resurrecting Ser Beric and explaining this to Mel was a foreshadowing for another event, this time whitnessed. It has to be Jon Snow. Even if LSH appears, her resurrection will have happened offscreen, just like in the books.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

The whole Thoros resurrecting Ser Beric and explaining this to Mel was a foreshadowing for another event, this time whitnessed. It has to be Jon Snow. Even if LSH appears, her resurrection will have happened offscreen, just like in the books.

 

Mel can't believe that Thoros can raise Beric though. That says that she doesn't have that power. If that was foreshadowing, then it's foreshadowing of her failing. And her powers failed all through season 5.

 

Mel bringing Jon back is completely uncharacteristic for her. Her character does not have that power

[Monoman32]

Kit Harington has been in Belfast for weeks, if all he was doing is filming his funeral scene that would only take a day or 2.  And with TOJ flashback in season 6 that kinda means Jon is coming back.  Anybody who think Jon is dead and not coming back has either not watched the show, don't understand the show, or is a troll.

[A Ghost of Someone]

 

Mel can't believe that Thoros can raise Beric though. That says that she doesn't have that power. If that was foreshadowing, then it's foreshadowing of her failing. And her powers failed all through season 5.

 

Mel bringing Jon back is completely uncharacteristic for her. Her character does not have that power

There is a first time for everything. Did not Mel say that Thoros should not have this power? Thoros is like a complete degenerate failure for her order and an infamous one at that. She is looking down at Thoros in that scene.

[A Ghost of Someone]

My question is not whether Jon Snow will be resurrected but it is will he consider his obligation to the Night's Watch as a sworn brother fulfilled as he died and now his watch has ended, thus freeing him to help his family, I E, potentially Sansa, Rickon, Bran and look for Arya?

[King Zee]

 

Mel can't believe that Thoros can raise Beric though. That says that she doesn't have that power. If that was foreshadowing, then it's foreshadowing of her failing. And her powers failed all through season 5.

 

Mel bringing Jon back is completely uncharacteristic for her. Her character does not have that power

 

 

Thoros didnt believe either.  (Paraphrased)

 

"I said the words not becuase I believed but becuase they were the only words I knew"

[King of the Narrow Sea]

Kit Harington has been in Belfast for weeks, if all he was doing is filming his funeral scene that would only take a day or 2.  And with TOJ flashback in season 6 that kinda means Jon is coming back.  Anybody who think Jon is dead and not coming back has either not watched the show, don't understand the show, or is a troll.

 

I never said I thought he would stay dead. I said Mel isn't going to be the one to bring him back. There's zero indication that she has that power to me.

 

There is a first time for everything. Did not Mel say that Thoros should not have this power? Thoros is like a complete degenerate failure for her order and an infamous one at that. She is looking down at Thoros in that scene.

 

Here's the scene

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2MGg_8TF9g

 

It's not that she thinks that Thoros shouldn't have that power. Her entire expression during her conversation with Beric and Thoros is evident that she herself doesn't have that power as she's in complete wonderment that Beric is a living breathing man. She even says that it's impossible that Thoros could have the power to bring back Beric the amount of times that he had. She doesn't think anyone has the kind of power that Thoros is wielding. Thoros might be the degenerate but Mel to me makes it clear that Thoros is a titan dwarfing her in that moment with what he's been able to do.

 

If it were Thoros at the Wall I'd have no problem believing that Jon would be resurrecting by a red priest. But instead we have Mel who indicates she doesn't have the power when she's brought before one who does, and what powers she does have are failing so if she did it would likely not work or be flawed (like seeing that sacrificing Shireen would improve the weather but failing to see that it would cause half of Stannis' army to flee and his wife to kill herself). At best I could see her pulling off a MMD and healing the body but not the person.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

 

 

Thoros didnt believe either.  (Paraphrased)

 

"I said the words not becuase I believed but becuase they were the only words I knew"

This. Without a doubt, Thoros had nothing but a sword he could set on fire during tournaments. So, just tricks. A lot less than Mel has-shadow baby.

IF her weirdly returning to Castle Black after leaving Stannis to die and about five minutes before Jon was stabbed is a kind of foreshadowing...then she has that going for her too.

 

I will say I'm very open to him just getting up mid funeral-fire and walking out on his own. Was it the Lord of Light? Was it Targness? Was it Old God magic? Tune in for the next 3 seasons to find out! :)

[King of the Narrow Sea]

This. Without a doubt, Thoros had nothing but a sword he could set on fire during tournaments. So, just tricks. A lot less than Mel has-shadow baby.

IF her weirdly returning to Castle Black after leaving Stannis to die and about five minutes before Jon was stabbed is a kind of foreshadowing...then she has that going for her too.

 

I will say I'm very open to him just getting up mid funeral-fire and walking out on his own. Was it the Lord of Light? Was it Targness? Was it Old God magic? Tune in for the next 3 seasons to find out! :)

 

Mel's a shadowbinder as well as a red priest though. That's where her shadow babies come from, not her fire magic. Her fire magic, according to herself is mostly powders and tricks while shadowbinding is her actual magic and sorcery

 

 While the boy was gone, Melisandre washed herself and changed her robes. Her sleeves were full of hidden pockets, and she checked them carefully as she did every morning to make certain all her powders were in place. Powders to turn fire green or blue or silver, powders to make a flame roar and hiss and leap up higher than a man is tall, powders to make smoke. A smoke for truth, a smoke for lust, a smoke for fear, and the thick black smoke that could kill a man outright. The red priestess armed herself with a pinch of each of them.

The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients. My spells should suffice. She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them. With such sorceries at her command, she should soon have no more need of the feeble tricks of alchemists and pyromancers.

 

Even showMel acknowledged the her fire magic is mostly tricks when she spoke with Gendry before trying to have sex with him. Mel's true power according to herself when it comes to fire magic is reading the flames

 

 

Whenever she was asked what she saw within her fires, Melisandre would answer, "Much and more," but seeing was never as simple as those words suggested. It was an art, and like all arts it demanded mastery, discipline, study. Pain. That too. R'hllor spoke to his chosen ones through blessed fire, in a language of ash and cinder and twisting flame that only a god could truly grasp. Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames.

[Joseph Nobles]

There have been three examples of people returning from the dead in our story: Khal Drogo, Beric Dondarrian, and Lady Stoneheart. All three are abominations. All three are consumed with the last thoughts of their prior existence. Drogo's second life is that of a soul surrendered to pain and disease, now deprived of even that. It leaves him a vegetable concerned only with getting through to the next empty moment. Beric creeps on in his petty pace from death to death as well. He is the most articulate of our returned, and he tells us this new life is not devoutly to be wished. And finally there is the thing Lady Catelyn has become: a decayed vengeance machine. She is more akin to the army of wights raised by the Others, the only difference being that she still retains a spark of her own volition. And yet she cannot do anything but have her revenge. She is not a creature of free will any longer. She is a slave.

Is this what you want for Jon Snow? In the moment of his death, he had forsaken his vows as the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch (the true crisis in Westeros) and was caught in the short term politics that are decimating the Northern ability to resist the Others. Is Mel concerned with stopping the Others? No, she's consumed by those politics herself. She employs grumpkins and snarks to advance her agenda in the game of thrones. The TV show has given us a taste of the end to which she is leading Stannis Baratheon (though no one forces him to follow, no one but himself). Jon coming back at her summons will not end well.

The other proposed path back for Jon is warging into Ghost. Again, GRRM could not be more clear on the mummer's dance that is. He calls it an echo, not the person returned, an echo soon subsumed into the animal again. This would not be the Jon Snow we know and love, either.

For a while, I considered this might be a telling of the Search for Spock story, a Fisher King variation. Mel brings Jon's body back, healing it of his wounds the way Beric does on reentry. We get a variation of what Beric is, but the echo of Jon in Ghost, untainted by death or the Red Priest, reaches out to the former warg and gives us Jon again, Jon Targaryen, free from his vows and ready to take his throne. Two wrongs cancelling each other out and getting it right: is that a storyline we see coming from GRRM?

A wight cameo is the second best fate I can see for Jon now. Best is that he stays dead and is burned by the Nights Watch. What horrible thing Jon could become under the influence of Mel, her Azor Ahai, is only amplified by the notion that the direwolf could reach out and take hold of the body vacated of choice. Then "Jon" would be driven by the desire to march South with whatever army that comes to hand, living or dead. He would have the conscience of a wolf to kill, consume, and cast about for the next thing to kill. Nothing in Westeros could stand before him.

I for one hope he is dead and gone.

[Nymeria's pack]

I want him to come back but like Joseph Nobles above, can't yet see a good way for this to happen. Don't want him mixed up with Mel and her LOL, can't figure out how the warging would work, I don't want him to be a wight.  I'm just hoping GRRM has a really good surprise in store and has come up with a way to bring him back in a good way, with no dire consequences....is that very deluded of me?

[Spilt Pea Soup]

^^yes it is. nothing is free in this series. Just have to wonder what the price will be (See, eg, Tyron throwing off the shackles of his abusive father. Dany with Drogo. Even Beric! ).

[KeepingupwiththeTargareans]

Hi All,

 

I think and hope that "Jon Snow" is truly dead and that he will be reborn as "the prince that was promised". 

[Edmure's Floppy Fish]

 
Exactly
 
In order to make the show, GRRM asked D&D who Jon Snow's mother was. Why would that be the question if R+L=J comes to nothing? The hints have been all over the place this season and next season we are getting a Tower of Joy scene. What would be the point if Jon is really gone for good?
 
I don't even think he will skip a season like allot of people are predicting.

GRRM also said he cone with the bastard's last names for each region because he liked the name "Jon Snow"

[Wild Wolf]

 

I never said I thought he would stay dead. I said Mel isn't going to be the one to bring him back. There's zero indication that she has that power to me.

 

 

Here's the scene

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2MGg_8TF9g

 

It's not that she thinks that Thoros shouldn't have that power. Her entire expression during her conversation with Beric and Thoros is evident that she herself doesn't have that power as she's in complete wonderment that Beric is a living breathing man. She even says that it's impossible that Thoros could have the power to bring back Beric the amount of times that he had. She doesn't think anyone has the kind of power that Thoros is wielding. Thoros might be the degenerate but Mel to me makes it clear that Thoros is a titan dwarfing her in that moment with what he's been able to do.

 

If it were Thoros at the Wall I'd have no problem believing that Jon would be resurrecting by a red priest. But instead we have Mel who indicates she doesn't have the power when she's brought before one who does, and what powers she does have are failing so if she did it would likely not work or be flawed (like seeing that sacrificing Shireen would improve the weather but failing to see that it would cause half of Stannis' army to flee and his wife to kill herself). At best I could see her pulling off a MMD and healing the body but not the person.

 

 

I don't think Mel is losing her powers, previously she has said that the Lord of Light only shows her the truth but sometime she reads the flames wrong - i think that she has read the flames wrong, hence the mistakes, she thought Stannis was AA but now she realises  that Jon is and that Stannis was just the "road" she had to follow to get to Jon - when it comes down to it she will call on the Lord of Light to give her the power to resurrect Jon and because Jon is the real AA she will be able to do it 

[A Ghost of Someone]

 

I never said I thought he would stay dead. I said Mel isn't going to be the one to bring him back. There's zero indication that she has that power to me.

 

 

Here's the scene

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2MGg_8TF9g

 

It's not that she thinks that Thoros shouldn't have that power. Her entire expression during her conversation with Beric and Thoros is evident that she herself doesn't have that power as she's in complete wonderment that Beric is a living breathing man. She even says that it's impossible that Thoros could have the power to bring back Beric the amount of times that he had. She doesn't think anyone has the kind of power that Thoros is wielding. Thoros might be the degenerate but Mel to me makes it clear that Thoros is a titan dwarfing her in that moment with what he's been able to do.

 

If it were Thoros at the Wall I'd have no problem believing that Jon would be resurrecting by a red priest. But instead we have Mel who indicates she doesn't have the power when she's brought before one who does, and what powers she does have are failing so if she did it would likely not work or be flawed (like seeing that sacrificing Shireen would improve the weather but failing to see that it would cause half of Stannis' army to flee and his wife to kill herself). At best I could see her pulling off a MMD and healing the body but not the person.

good digging up. Also, and this is a gut feeling. I really would not trust TV Mel to be alone with Jon Snow's corpse. She is likely to mount him and say the words. She wanted a shadow baby pretty bad from him.