Why do people assume the FM are anti-slavery when they took a contract from Euron?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

Jaquen would have had to borrow Littlefingers TARDIS to pull that off.

 

 

 

Morqorro could be a warlock in disguise. We know they can change their faces and that Euron captured several.

Actually it would be easy for Jaqen to swing by the Iron Islands before heading to Oldtown.

 

Moqorro hasn't been anywhere near Euron and even though the warlocks can change their faces, the blue lips would probably still be in evidence. This of course begs the question is that really Euron or is it one of the warlocks pretending to be him?

[Lord Wraith]

Actually it would be easy for Jaqen to swing by the Iron Islands before heading to Oldtown.

 

Moqorro hasn't been anywhere near Euron and even though the warlocks can change their faces, the blue lips would probably still be in evidence. This of course begs the question is that really Euron or is it one of the warlocks pretending to be him?

 

I suppose that Jaquen could have snuck aboard the Myraham with Theon. Else he would have had to snuck onto the island after Balon closed off the Iron Islands.

[Targaryen Restoration]

The FM supposedly originate w/ slaves in the Valyrian mines. True no doubt, but a lot of theories I've read about the current FM seem to assume that they're still actively anti-slavery. That can't be true, or they wouldn't have taken a contract from Euron Greyjoy, a known slaver and all-around monster. The fact that they would take a contract from Euron, and for payment (probably his dragon's egg), shows that they are at best amoral, as they must have known Euron's character and record. Assassinating Balon & thus paving the way for Euron to become King of the IB has already led to many people being newly enslaved, and probably will lead to more, and that's just a fraction of the (entirely predictable) destruction Euron will bring about, especially if he steals a dragon, which the FM must have known was his goal. What do you think?

 

They started off helping deliver relief to the slaves working in the mines.  It's not clear today if they are anti-slavery or simply neutral.  Maintaining neutrality would be better for their business of offering death to people. 

[spoon89]

I suppose that Jaquen could have snuck aboard the Myraham with Theon. Else he would have had to snuck onto the island after Balon closed off the Iron Islands.

 

The problem is that Jaquen leaves Harrenhal after Theon arrives in Pyke, never mind when he was dispatched, not before (Theon was dispatched by Robb prior to his going west in ACoK:Catelyn I, and Jaquen leaves in Herranhal in Arya IX).

 

The chapters are not in chronological order but they are within a characters POV. All POVs roughly sync up due the presence of the comet (Cat mentions it in Catelyn I when Theon is due to leave the next day and Arya mentions the comet in Arya I ).

[Lord Wraith]

 

The problem is that Jaquen leaves Harrenhal after Theon arrives in Pyke, never mind when he was dispatched, not before (Theon was dispatched by Robb prior to his going west in ACoK:Catelyn I, and Jaquen leaves in Herranhal in Arya IX).

 

The chapters are not in chronological order but they are within a characters POV. All POVs roughly sync up due the presence of the comet (Cat mentions it in Catelyn I when Theon is due to leave the next day and Arya mentions the comet in Arya I ).

 

Balon blockades the Iron Islands after declaring himself King. I keep wondering how the Faceless Man gets to Pyke.

[A Bastard Snow]

 
Balon blockades the Iron Islands after declaring himself King. I keep wondering how the Faceless Man gets to Pyke.

Probably as a Thrall or random sailor.

[Lord Wraith]

Probably as a Thrall or random sailor.

 

Yes but Balon refuses to let ships leave the islands. Soon word would get out about that and the invasion of the North. What captain would take their ship to the Iron Islands when they won't be able to leave?

[Hoppy Hour]

The FM supposedly originate w/ slaves in the Valyrian mines. True no doubt, but a lot of theories I've read about the current FM seem to assume that they're still actively anti-slavery. That can't be true, or they wouldn't have taken a contract from Euron Greyjoy, a known slaver and all-around monster. The fact that they would take a contract from Euron, and for payment (probably his dragon's egg), shows that they are at best amoral, as they must have known Euron's character and record. Assassinating Balon & thus paving the way for Euron to become King of the IB has already led to many people being newly enslaved, and probably will lead to more, and that's just a fraction of the (entirely predictable) destruction Euron will bring about, especially if he steals a dragon, which the FM must have known was his goal. What do you think?

 

It's not like there is any evidence of the FM linked to the death of Balon Greyjoy.

[KimberBenton]

We don't really know too much about the FM. They are most likely not all Bravosi for starters. And it's the Bravosi who are against Slavers. We assume a FM killed Balon and they were paid with a dragon egg, but do we really know that? And even if, was Euron at the temple or did he meet a FM on his journeys and made the deal directly. It seems they are allowed to do that, because Jaqen makes a deal with Arya. Also, they are not always paid, as I understand it. If someone really poor comes along and prays for justice, they just do the deed. There is also no sense in saying "You saved three lives, so now I will kill three people for you." It makes sense for Jaqen to repay his own life, but he barely knows the other two. It can't be that everytime you save someone, the FM kill someone for you, just like that. Or maybe he is just testing Arya. I'm also unclear if they can decline a job or if they have to take everything. I'm also wondering, why Jaqen (if it is Jaqen) is in the citadel. If it was just for a killing job, he could have done it already. Also don't know how he ended up in the dungeons of Kings Landing to start with. They are suppose to be very sneaky. I'm not helping, am I :blushing:

[A-Faceless-Woman]

 

It's not like there is any evidence of the FM linked to the death of Balon Greyjoy.

 

And it's not likely we'll ever get evidence of it since the FM assassination should appear as accident, so no one would actually suspect a murder.

But Euron coming in the day after Balon died cannot be just a coincidence. 

 

 

We don't really know too much about the FM. They are most likely not all Bravosi for starters. And it's the Bravosi who are against Slavers. We assume a FM killed Balon and they were paid with a dragon egg, but do we really know that? And even if, was Euron at the temple or did he meet a FM on his journeys and made the deal directly. It seems they are allowed to do that, because Jaqen makes a deal with Arya. Also, they are not always paid, as I understand it. If someone really poor comes along and prays for justice, they just do the deed. There is also no sense in saying "You saved three lives, so now I will kill three people for you." It makes sense for Jaqen to repay his own life, but he barely knows the other two. It can't be that everytime you save someone, the FM kill someone for you, just like that. Or maybe he is just testing Arya. I'm also unclear if they can decline a job or if they have to take everything. I'm also wondering, why Jaqen (if it is Jaqen) is in the citadel. If it was just for a killing job, he could have done it already. Also don't know how he ended up in the dungeons of Kings Landing to start with. They are suppose to be very sneaky. I'm not helping, am I :blushing:

 

True we don't know much about them. 

 

But we do know that they are paid when they receive a contract (such as, someone comes in and says "I want this guy dead" then the FM are paid, but the price is not about money only, so I guess then it's your definition of price that comes in). 

The people praying in the temple do not ask the gift for someone else but for themselves. So it's not a "contract". 

Finally, Jaqen giving her 3 lifes because she saved 3 is, I'm guessing, to balance. Like, 3 lives were to be taken but were saved, so the balance must be restored by taking 3 lives. 

 

Concerning Jaqen's job at the Citadel, I'm wondering as well.... 

[Lord Wraith]

 

It's not like there is any evidence of the FM linked to the death of Balon Greyjoy.

 

Just the Ghost of Highheart's vision but that is certainly open interpretation. Who did kill Balon then in your opinion?

 

We don't really know too much about the FM. They are most likely not all Bravosi for starters. And it's the Bravosi who are against Slavers. We assume a FM killed Balon and they were paid with a dragon egg, but do we really know that? And even if, was Euron at the temple or did he meet a FM on his journeys and made the deal directly. It seems they are allowed to do that, because Jaqen makes a deal with Arya. Also, they are not always paid, as I understand it. If someone really poor comes along and prays for justice, they just do the deed. There is also no sense in saying "You saved three lives, so now I will kill three people for you." It makes sense for Jaqen to repay his own life, but he barely knows the other two. It can't be that everytime you save someone, the FM kill someone for you, just like that. Or maybe he is just testing Arya. I'm also unclear if they can decline a job or if they have to take everything. I'm also wondering, why Jaqen (if it is Jaqen) is in the citadel. If it was just for a killing job, he could have done it already. Also don't know how he ended up in the dungeons of Kings Landing to start with. They are suppose to be very sneaky. I'm not helping, am I :blushing:

 

Your answers merely breed more questions.  :laugh:

I think the Faceless Men do much more than assassination.  Certainly spying and other matters of intrigue.

 

 

And it's not likely we'll ever get evidence of it since the FM assassination should appear as accident, so no one would actually suspect a murder.

But Euron coming in the day after Balon died cannot be just a coincidence. 

 

 

 

True we don't know much about them. 

 

But we do know that they are paid when they receive a contract (such as, someone comes in and says "I want this guy dead" then the FM are paid, but the price is not about money only, so I guess then it's your definition of price that comes in). 

The people praying in the temple do not ask the gift for someone else but for themselves. So it's not a "contract". 

Finally, Jaqen giving her 3 lifes because she saved 3 is, I'm guessing, to balance. Like, 3 lives were to be taken but were saved, so the balance must be restored by taking 3 lives. 

 

Concerning Jaqen's job at the Citadel, I'm wondering as well.... 

 

Jaquen is working with Archmaester Marwyn, to what end I'm not sure. My gut goes with dragons.

[A-Faceless-Woman]

 

 

Jaquen is working with Archmaester Marwyn, to what end I'm not sure. My gut goes with dragons.

 

Yup that's what I think too, but to what end I really don't know. I mean, Marwyn seems to be for dragons, but I don't see why FM would want more dragons. 

[Hoppy Hour]

 

And it's not likely we'll ever get evidence of it since the FM assassination should appear as accident, so no one would actually suspect a murder.

But Euron coming in the day after Balon died cannot be just a coincidence. 

 

For all we know Euron could have paid some servant to give old Balon a push. Or one of the Sorrowful Men. It's not like only the FM are after professional hits.

[A-Faceless-Woman]

 

For all we know Euron could have paid some servant to give old Balon a push. Or one of the Sorrowful Men. It's not like only the FM are after professional hits.

 

True. But a servant could talk - unlikely Euron would pay a servant. Sorrowful Men, I guess possible. I think the likeliness of the killer being a FM is because the FM might have an easier time doing it (the Sorrowful Men cannot take the face of anyone working in Pyke, thus being spottable). 

Also, there is the dragon egg at the bottom of the ocean mentioned by Euron, which would be the price for the kill. 

But you're right, we can't know 100% sure that a FM pushed Balon. 

[Ser Naufragus]

I just don't see Euron's prayer pleasing the gods. Please kill my old brother so I can steal his crown and raid the world. Euron seems like the type they would kill.

And its been pointed out by others that Euron had to set up the contract from the other side of the world.

It seems more logical that Euron was using some kind of sorcery whether it was his wizards doing a shadow baby or a warlock. We also know from the text they can control the weather and by all accounts there was a storm of some kind. Maybe there was no actual man on that bridge and it was the wind and the prophecy is simply being metaphorical about a faceless man.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

Yes but Balon refuses to let ships leave the islands. Soon word would get out about that and the invasion of the North. What captain would take their ship to the Iron Islands when they won't be able to leave?

A fishing boat could make it in theory. Ships can't leave, but people still need to eat.  And it wouldn't be difficult for "no one" to blend in.

 

 

I just don't see Euron's prayer pleasing the gods. Please kill my old brother so I can steal his crown and raid the world. Euron seems like the type they would kill.

And its been pointed out by others that Euron had to set up the contract from the other side of the world.

It seems more logical that Euron was using some kind of sorcery whether it was his wizards doing a shadow baby or a warlock. We also know from the text they can control the weather and by all accounts there was a storm of some kind. Maybe there was no actual man on that bridge and it was the wind and the prophecy is simply being metaphorical about a faceless man.

Euron would care however about the view other people have of kinslayers.  He would make sure there's no way anyone could tie him to the death.

 

Please explain what else GoHH's vision of a man without a face and a crow could mean in relation to Balon's death.

[Ser Naufragus]

A fishing boat could make it in theory. Ships can't leave, but people still need to eat.  And it wouldn't be difficult for "no one" to blend in.
 
 
Euron would care however about the view other people have of kinslayers.  He would make sure there's no way anyone could tie him to the death.
 
Please explain what else GoHH's vision of a man without a face and a crow could mean in relation to Balon's death.

I was saying that the indeed Euron had Balon killed, the reason there was a "faceless" man is because Euron was using some kind of sorcery and there was no actual man present, hence in the vision the figure was faceless. It also metaphorically speaks of Euron's deception.

Balon just fell off a bridge is what people think regardless of if it was sorcery, and FM or some paid lackey. Everyone saw Euron arrive so he has an alibi

Given the evidence that Euron is surround by wizards, encountered warlocks and has spent time in the mysterious East, its within his power to do the hit himself.

If it was a FM then there would also need to be some kind of coordination or signal for him to arrive with such perfect timing. His arrival seems to also point to it being some kind of sorcery from his end.

Adding the FM whether its Jaquen or some other FM just adds a needless plot point when Euron had the means himself.

[The Dragons Hand]

Daenerys is anti-slavery, she still married Hizdahr.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I was saying that the indeed Euron had Balon killed, the reason there was a "faceless" man is because Euron was using some kind of sorcery and there was no actual man present, hence in the vision the figure was faceless. It also metaphorically speaks of Euron's deception.

Balon just fell off a bridge is what people think regardless of if it was sorcery, and FM or some paid lackey. Everyone saw Euron arrive so he has an alibi

Given the evidence that Euron is surround by wizards, encountered warlocks and has spent time in the mysterious East, its within his power to do the hit himself.

If it was a FM then there would also need to be some kind of coordination or signal for him to arrive with such perfect timing. His arrival seems to also point to it being some kind of sorcery from his end.

Adding the FM whether its Jaquen or some other FM just adds a needless plot point when Euron had the means himself.

But then the wording shouldn't be "a man without a face" but something more akin to "a man who wasn't there."  The reference to the crow points to Euron (unless someone in the Night's Watch who had it in for Balon) already.  So that would be like mentioning him twice.

 

Euron could have sent a few men ashore to see what the current climate of the Islands was and they rowed back out to wherever Silence was moored and told him Balon was dead.  No sorcery necessary for that.  Though with the warlocks aboard, they might have been able to tell him that Balon was dead too.  So Euron himself doesn't need to actively use sorcery.

 

I don't recall any wizards Euron has, just the warlocks.  And so far they haven't been described as remotely without faces, and they haven't been able to kill anyone by proxy or magic.  They had Dany in their temple for the attempt to kill her.  I don't think they have the ability to take Balon out.  It's just not their kind of magic.

 

And Euron throwing a dragon's egg into the sea makes zero sense if he's planning to marry the woman who hatches dragon eggs.  If he ever had a dragon egg at all, he more than likely paid it to the FM to kill his brother.  That would not be a needless plot point. It ties Arya and anyone else who has ties to the FM in with the Ironborn plot and with a dragon egg that could hatch.

[Lord Wraith]

But then the wording shouldn't be "a man without a face" but something more akin to "a man who wasn't there."  The reference to the crow points to Euron (unless someone in the Night's Watch who had it in for Balon) already.  So that would be like mentioning him twice.

 

Euron could have sent a few men ashore to see what the current climate of the Islands was and they rowed back out to wherever Silence was moored and told him Balon was dead.  No sorcery necessary for that.  Though with the warlocks aboard, they might have been able to tell him that Balon was dead too.  So Euron himself doesn't need to actively use sorcery.

 

I don't recall any wizards Euron has, just the warlocks.  And so far they haven't been described as remotely without faces, and they haven't been able to kill anyone by proxy or magic.  They had Dany in their temple for the attempt to kill her.  I don't think they have the ability to take Balon out.  It's just not their kind of magic.

 

And Euron throwing a dragon's egg into the sea makes zero sense if he's planning to marry the woman who hatches dragon eggs.  If he ever had a dragon egg at all, he more than likely paid it to the FM to kill his brother.  That would not be a needless plot point. It ties Arya and anyone else who has ties to the FM in with the Ironborn plot and with a dragon egg that could hatch.

 

Aeron gave him a baleful look, the look that had been known to sour wells and make women barren. "It was not the god who spoke. Euron is known to keep wizards and foul sorcerers on that red ship of his. They sent some spell among us, so we could not hear the sea. The captains and the kings were drunk with all this talk of dragons."

 

Euron keeps wizards, sorcerors, and warlocks. He claims to get able to control the winds. Maybe he just used magic to blow Balon off the bridge? I still think the FM theory makes too much sense.