The Lost People of ASOIAF

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

I wonder if the oily black stone is the remnants of the second moon, and if that's what the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped. Most of the oily black meteorite(?) would be in the Shadow, which would be the impact point. And how would that relate to the pale meteorite that the Daynes made into Dawn? Could that have been the remnants of the comet that struck the moon?

 

I don't think the Old Ones, the Merlings, or some other lost race built the oily black stone structures. I think the bloodstone emperor built the oily black stone structures. The oily black stone is bloodstone. There are only a handful of these structures in the known world, apropos of a single reign, not an entire culture.

 

As far as the lack of children in Asshai is concerned, we've all seen how the Greyjoys ended up. Balon is mad, Aeron is madder, Euron is the maddest, and apparently Victarion has the least screws loose of any of his siblings. Let that one sink in. We've yet to meet the Hightowers, but it seems that raising children around the oily black stone does not have good results.

[winterfellbeyondthewall]

I wonder if the oily black stone is the remnants of the second moon, and if that's what the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped. Most of the oily black meteorite(?) would be in the Shadow, which would be the impact point. And how would that relate to the pale meteorite that the Daynes made into Dawn? Could that have been the remnants of the comet that struck the moon?
 
I don't think the Old Ones, the Merlings, or some other lost race built the oily black stone structures. I think the bloodstone emperor built the oily black stone structures. The oily black stone is bloodstone. There are only a handful of these structures in the known world, apropos of a single reign, not an entire culture.
 
As far as the lack of children in Asshai is concerned, we've all seen how the Greyjoys ended up. Balon is mad, Aeron is madder, Euron is the maddest, and apparently Victarion has the least screws loose of any of his siblings. Let that one sink in. We've yet to meet the Hightowers, but it seems that raising children around the oily black stone does not have good results.

I do agree with you. But when the moon crumbled and its remnants poured over the earth they surely weren't as smoothly hammered as they are in Yeen for instance. I believe it was chiselled by human hand but if so what effect did it have on those who worked the stone?

And on the other hand does the spans of time even fit? Assuming all of the mentioned black stone structures in ASOIAF are indeed the same and have come from the moon then is it even possible concerning certain periods of time?

Yeen is a really ancient city and as we all know has been abandoned for THOUSANDS of years. Asshai is really old too. But what about the Bloodstone emperor who worshipped the stone? Is it possible for Yeen to have been originated during this time? Or was the Bloodstone Emperor before/after its uprising?

[Lordsteve666]

Trouble with saying the Bloodstone Emperor build the oily stone structures is that many of them pre-date his reign by a long time.
The base of the Hightower on Battle Isle for example was found abandoned by the first men when they arrived in Westeros and we know they arrived some time before the Long Night. The Bloodstone Emperor is supposedly connected to the start of the LN so he cannot of been around in Westeros even earlier to build such a structure.

The emperor is highly likely to date from a long time after the oily stone was used as a building material.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

I do agree with you. But when the moon crumbled and its remnants poured over the earth they surely weren't as smoothly hammered as they are in Yeen for instance. I believe it was chiselled by human hand but if so what effect did it have on those who worked the stone?

And on the other hand does the spans of time even fit? Assuming all of the mentioned black stone structures in ASOIAF are indeed the same and have come from the moon then is it even possible concerning certain periods of time?

Yeen is a really ancient city and as we all know has been abandoned for THOUSANDS of years. Asshai is really old too. But what about the Bloodstone emperor who worshipped the stone? Is it possible for Yeen to have been originated during this time? Or was the Bloodstone Emperor before/after its uprising?

 

 

Trouble with saying the Bloodstone Emperor build the oily stone structures is that many of them pre-date his reign by a long time.
The base of the Hightower on Battle Isle for example was found abandoned by the first men when they arrived in Westeros and we know they arrived some time before the Long Night. The Bloodstone Emperor is supposedly connected to the start of the LN so he cannot of been around in Westeros even earlier to build such a structure.

The emperor is highly likely to date from a long time after the oily stone was used as a building material.

 

You both make very good points. My answer to both of you is that ancient history has been left deliberately vague. Perhaps the First Men who recorded finding Battle Isle were the survivors of the Long Night. We just don't know. Only with the arrival of the Andals do we have a reliable historical record. Before that, conjecture is all we've got. It's entirely likely that I'm completely wrong, but somehow I think the prehistoric meteorites are connected.

 

The Emperors during the GEOTD supposedly lived extremely long lives, and we have seen enough examples in the novels (Bloodraven, the Undying, Mel) of those connected with magic having extended lifespans. Was the Bloodstone Emperor's reign long enough to construct Yeen and the other greasy black stone structures? Perhaps.

[winterfellbeyondthewall]

 
 
 
You both make very good points. My answer to both of you is that ancient history has been left deliberately vague. Perhaps the First Men who recorded finding Battle Isle were the survivors of the Long Night. We just don't know. Only with the arrival of the Andals do we have a reliable historical record. Before that, conjecture is all we've got. It's entirely likely that I'm completely wrong, but somehow I think the prehistoric meteorites are connected.
 
The Emperors during the GEOTD supposedly lived extremely long lives, and we have seen enough examples in the novels (Bloodraven, the Undying, Mel) of those connected with magic having extended lifespans. Was the Bloodstone Emperor's reign long enough to construct Yeen and the other greasy black stone structures? Perhaps.

I agree with you. It's only an option but as likely as everything else, that has been suggested so far. I feel that since magic is apparently involved holding on to certain time spans and dates is as unreasonable as just presuming something without enough supporting evidence

[Lady Blizzardborn]

It's volcanic rock...

http://www.google.com/search?q=black+basalt+images&client=ms-android-verizon&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI6IKN5uGSxwIVjQ2SCh3KQAiq&biw=360&bih=615

Thanks.  Didn't remotely answer my question but that's okay.  Pretty pictures!

 

 

 

Here's one thread, some of the others will be referenced and linked inside it from memory. There is a lot of reading to do, but its very good stuff, whether you end up believing it all, some, or none.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/129106-astronomy-of-planetos-children-of-the-dawn-part-one/

 

This stuff is one of the few really clever, well researched, well referenced, well argued new set of ideas I've seen about ASOIAF for at least a couple of years. Its the sort of thing that I still hang around here occasionally, 'just-in-case' for.

Thank you, corbon, for posting the link.

[Fire Eater]

 

 

Yes,

 

 

 

The mazemakers left no written records, so we shall never know. Their bones tell us that they were massively built and larger than men, though not so large as giants.

 

The bones of the ones who supposedly built the labyrinths on Lorath were a race of larger than men. Could they also be kin to the Old Ones? 

 

"One day at Myr, a certain man came to our folly. After the performance, he made an offer for me that my master found too tempting to refuse. I was in terror. I feared the man meant to use me as I had heard men used small boys, but in truth the only part of me he had need of was my manhood. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

 

Could the voice have been from the Old Ones? Could Varys have made some kind of deal with this race akin to Pryrates's deal with the supernatural Storm King Ineluki, the omnicidal villain in MS&T in the spirit world between life and death?

I think he probably sought the power after being corrupted by exposure to early on or just before his reign of terror began.
He started the Cult of Stary Wisdom not long after taking power but I suspect he took power in such a violent way specifically because the power he was becoming aware of was starting to push him along a certain path.
Power corrupts, especially power from some ancient source the rest if the world has forgotten existed.

I would imagine the reason he sought the power was something like immortality or the domination over his subjects, the usual crazed dictator stuff.

It just went horribly wrong because maybe he could control it and awoke something he never anticipated. Or perhaps he was cheated and misled by some god or entity he gained knowledge from. Who knows.

You mean akin to Stannis in his quest for the crown joining the Red Faith which involves human sacrifice in exchange for boons (magic sword, dragon, end to blizzard, etc)?

[Lordsteve666]

Good point about Stannis, never thought of that.

But essentially yes, magic and power that comes with it can offer a means to an end but it often comes with a great price. The sanity of the user, their soul, their family and friends, or even bigger costs such as the lives of an entire empire.

I think Stannis is just starting on the path to madness by making a deal with the devil. Who knows where it will lead him. He may get the crown but then what?
How much will he sacrifice to the Lord of Light in order to hold onto that power?
Just look what the Targaryen kings and queens did to maintain their power.

The Bloodstone Emperor went full on crazed-evil by all accounts, human sacrifice, dark magic, he really went down the rabbit hole in his pursuit of ultimate power and we kind of know the outcome.
He is an example of how wrong things can go in pursuit of power.

In fact when you look at ASOIAF in general a theme that crops up again and again is how much people are willing to sacrifice to gain or keep power. Maybe not always with magical involvement but the choices are there all the same.
Cersei, Viserys, Danny, Littlefinger; they all at some point have had to make the choice of how far are they willing to go for ultimate power.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Thanks.  Didn't remotely answer my question but that's okay.  Pretty pictures!

You asked if it was oily. I really don't know. I gave you the link to pictures to see for yourself.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

You asked if it was oily. I really don't know. I gave you the link to pictures to see for yourself.

Yes but the pictures (while lovely) weren't really any help.  Sadly, neither was a standard Google search, worded different ways.  Shame "oilyness" isn't one of the standard properties they use for identifying minerals.  It will remain shrouded in mystery...

[winterfellbeyondthewall]

Yes but the pictures (while lovely) weren't really any help.  Sadly, neither was a standard Google search, worded different ways.  Shame "oilyness" isn't one of the standard properties they use for identifying minerals.  It will remain shrouded in mystery...

If anyone is interested there was a really interesting thread, a few weeks back, that concerned itself with exactly this matter.

I'll provide the link:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/119617-woiaf-spoilers-oily-stone-yeen-asshai-the-wall-5-forts-hinges-of-the-world/#

It really is worth a whole read through.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Other than the Seastone Chair, introduced in Theon II, Clash 24, do we see any other oily black stone objects or structures before The World of Ice and Fire?

[Maester of Valyria]

On 05/08/2015 at 8:11 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

I noticed when I reread Game very recently that Moat Cailin was made of black basalt. This naturaly caused me to ponder the black stones in TWOIAF, waking giants from the earth, the Doom of Valyria, and Hardhome. I'm sure all these things have a huge impact on the upcoming War for the Dawn, but I am nowhere near to figuring it out.

If you want my two pence on Hardhome, I believe it was destroyed by a volcanic eruption. You can find my reasoning for this in the link in my signature (the one that mentions Hardhome).

 

__

 

I've always been sceptical of Moat Cailin being Black Stone for two reasons. One: due to its state of disrepair. Every other example we are aware of, oily or otherwise, is still in excellent condition. The one other possible exception to this is Yeen, which is described several times as ruined and haunted. However 'ruined' may just refer to the fact that it's completely abandoned and as such is a bit messy, or possibly other secondary structures that have become ruined over time (it appears that there have been attempts to settle the city before, certainly by the Rhoynish). Yes, I know this seems like straw-clutching, but it's half of my reasoning.

Two: the absence of any other Black Stone structures in that area of Westeros, with the exception of the Seastone Chair. Why would this advanced civilisation have made the effort to journey inland to build a castle in the Neck, and just in the Neck? The only other Black Stone structure not in a coastal location is Yeen, which is by a river. I believe that the Saltspear and its tributaries during the global sea level rise that caused the Breaking (ie the Saltspear is a ria - justification in the top link in my signature).  An examination of the Known World map precludes the Zamoyos from having been created in the same way. The point here is that Moat Cailin would have broken the pattern of Black Stone structures being easily accessed from the sea.