Littlefinger in Season 6, how is this going to play out for him?

[Richard Writhen]

No idea? The man is literally a pimp, and that's what he did to Sansa to fool the Boltons into believing that he is "with" them.

 

 

 

 

What he's really doing is targeting them, just as he was with Cersei.

[A Ghost of Someone]

It is hard to gauge what LF expected to happen to Sansa. He knew she was a virgin so, did he really think the wedding would never take place?

It just strikes me as so out of character to throw her away, especially her "innocent" status in a physical sense. Then, it dawns on me, it is not supposed to make sense. The rape scene was the main goal, we are trying in vain to make sense of what Littlefinger gave up in Sansa but we will never find justification for it, neither did the writers with him playing 3 parties off on each other and also, apparently he, LF, never had any contact with Stannis when taking this approach.

[Richard Writhen]

He is a nihilist character. The idea that he sold her out and had no idea is ridiculous. That's why we are so off the rails on the show.

 

 

 

 

None of these repercussions are extant in the books.

[Grail King]

It is hard to gauge what LF expected to happen to Sansa. He knew she was a virgin so, did he really think the wedding would never take place?

It just strikes me as so out of character to throw her away, especially her "innocent" status in a physical sense. Then, it dawns on me, it is not supposed to make sense. The rape scene was the main goal, we are trying in vain to make sense of what Littlefinger gave up in Sansa but we will never find justification for it, neither did the writers with him playing 3 parties off on each other and also, apparently he, LF, never had any contact with Stannis when taking this approach.

Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game.

 

said in SOS Sansa 5, and paraphrased in show when heading to the Eyrie.

 

ETA: of course the writers sorta butchered it.

[TepidHands]

Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game.

NO! There's a great David Mamet movie called "House of Games" that came out in the 1980s, and the main antagonist, a con man, is explaining to the protagonist what a con game is. He says, "It's called a confidence game. Why? Because you give me your confidence? No. Because I give you mine." The point of a con, and Littlefinger is a con man, no doubt, is to have them TRUST you implicitly and in all things. And the con man gets EVERYBODY trusting them in all things. LF would not have succeeded by making people uneasy. He makes people easy. And then picks their pockets. 

 

That scene early on where he tips his hand way too early to Cersei? Wouldn't have happened to Book LF. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

NO! There's a great David Mamet movie called "House of Games" that came out in the 1980s, and the main antagonist, a con man, is explaining to the protagonist what a con game is. He says, "It's called a confidence game. Why? Because you give me your confidence? No. Because I give you mine." The point of a con, and Littlefinger is a con man, no doubt, is to have them TRUST you implicitly and in all things. And the con man gets EVERYBODY trusting them in all things. LF would not have succeeded by making people uneasy. He makes people easy. And then picks their pockets. 

 

That scene early on where he tips his hand way too early to Cersei? Wouldn't have happened to Book LF. 

That is an outstanding character analysis of LF. For one, he has played Sansa pretty damn well, perhaps too well.

[Hippocras]

I predict season 6 is Littlefinger's last and greatest season. This IMO is how it plays out:

1. LF does not go through Moat Cailin. Why do people keep thinking he does that? Geographically it makes absolutely no sense. No. LF will cross the Bay from the Vale and land at either White Harbour or the Dreadfort.

2a. If he lands at White Harbour, that is our introduction to Manderly, and Manderly, at least on the show but possibly also in the books is Littlefinger's ally. The Northern rebellion against the Boltons is something Littlefinger knows about and it kicks into full gear when LF and Vale forces land. In this version, LF is still pretending to be Roose's ally.

2b. If he lands at the Dreadfort, he does so because he knows that the Boltons are away and it is undefended. He takes the Boltons' home from them, forcing them to operate from Winterfell, and clarifying that the Boltons no longer have the support of the Lannisters. With the Dreadfort as a base, he then goes about encouraging various Northern Lords to rebel against the Boltons who no longer have the support of the throne in any case with his usual double talk and slimy deal making approach.

3. Meanwhile Sansa escapes towards the Wall, but is intercepted by Davos and Jon loyalist Watchmen (maybe Mel saw her coming in the flames) who tells her about Jon's murder. Sansa reveals that Rickon is alive. Together they go to the Umbers who probably have Rickon. Sansa tells the Umbers some of what she knows about what Littlefinger is up to. The Umbers decide to work with Littlefinger for now, because he is working against the Boltons and that is also the immediate goal of the Umbers.

4. Ramsay chases Sansa, but assumes she has gone to the Wall. He attacks the Wall with his twenty good men when whoever is left at the Wall fails to turn her over. Basically this combined with the reaction of the wildlings to Jon's death has the result that the Watch is completely obliterated except for those loyal to Jon who went with Davos. The rest are all either dead or deserted.

5. There is no more open warfare at Winterfell, instead it is infiltrated. The Boltons and their allies are being murdered inside the walls of Winterfell and they don't know who is responsible. Bickering, mental games, much nastiness. Maybe some Frey pie. Fat Walda dies. Roose with good reason blames Ramsay. Eventually one of Ramsay or Roose dies, leaving the other as Littlefinger and co's main opponent. Hard to say which but if Sansa is escaping the marriage then it is probably Ramsay that dies.

6. LF and co take Winterfell, but The remaining Bolton escapes. LF has the power he was after for something like a day before Sansa has him executed and his head spiked because of his various betrayals. She has known about some of these for longer than others, but kept it to herself until she no longer had need of him. But once Winterfell is secured for Rickon or for herself, and her place as acting Stark of Winterfell with the support of the Vale and Riverlands is established, she is free to eliminate him.

7. Rickon is Lord of Winterfell, Sansa is acting Lady until he comes of age, Ramsay is dead, Littlefinger is dead, the Freys are collapsed or close in the Riverlands (another arc), the Lannisters are out in King's Landing and Sansa's name is maybe even cleared of the murder charge. Things are looking good!

8. Then the Wall comes down.

[Frederic_ed]

Although I like Hippocras' predictions, I don't think it will happen that way. I don't believe there's going to be a big northern rebellion against the Boltons or something like that (I mean, we only have 10 episodes and MANY different storylines, and it looks like there are going to be many scenes in Essos). I think the casting calls for northern lords will be only for the Umbers (which will be related to Rickon/Davos/maybe Sansa's storyline).

 

Littlefinger will probably obliterate the Boltons at Winterfell. He will probably show up with the Vale army (wether he goes through Moat Cailyn or by ship isn't that important to the show, I think the Manderlys are cut either way) and tell Roose that he's there to help, Roose will trust him (because this is the show) and Littlefinger will butcher all of them (then Mellisandre's vision about Boltons flags burning over Winterfell will become true). This could happen in the second half of the season (because I think Littlefinger will replace Varys as the killer of Kevan and Pycelle), so the season could end with Littlefinger in control of the North and then suddenly the Wall comes down.

 

So, there will be probably three storylines in the north (that would explain why there has been so much filming over there): The Boltons' storyine, The Wall storyline and Davos/Rickon storyline (that could include Sansa). Brienne is a wild card, as I got no idea what she will do. It would be great if she returned to the Riverlands and continue her book storyline, but the writers would have to think a VERY good explanation for why would she leave Sansa and go south.

[TepidHands]

the writers would have to think a VERY good explanation for why would she leave Sansa and go south.

When has a the lack of a very good explanation ever stopped them before? Remember, Jaime went to Dorne. 

[Hippocras]

Although I like Hippocras' predictions, I don't think it will happen that way. I don't believe there's going to be a big northern rebellion against the Boltons or something like that (I mean, we only have 10 episodes and MANY different storylines, and it looks like there are going to be many scenes in Essos). I think the casting calls for northern lords will be only for the Umbers (which will be related to Rickon/Davos/maybe Sansa's storyline).
 
Littlefinger will probably obliterate the Boltons at Winterfell. He will probably show up with the Vale army (wether he goes through Moat Cailyn or by ship isn't that important to the show, I think the Manderlys are cut either way) and tell Roose that he's there to help, Roose will trust him (because this is the show) and Littlefinger will butcher all of them (then Mellisandre's vision about Boltons flags burning over Winterfell will become true). This could happen in the second half of the season (because I think Littlefinger will replace Varys as the killer of Kevan and Pycelle), so the season could end with Littlefinger in control of the North and then suddenly the Wall comes down.
 
So, there will be probably three storylines in the north (that would explain why there has been so much filming over there): The Boltons' storyine, The Wall storyline and Davos/Rickon storyline (that could include Sansa). Brienne is a wild card, as I got no idea what she will do. It would be great if she returned to the Riverlands and continue her book storyline, but the writers would have to think a VERY good explanation for why would she leave Sansa and go south.

There was at least one other Northern lord who was not an Umber in the casting call. It was a reasonable fit for Manderly if the show decided he doesn't need to be fat. I think all the stuff this past season about Sansa having friends in the North and the North remembering...stronly hints there will be some form of Northern rebellion.

[Valhalla Morghulis]

Actually reading this thread and the general dislike for LF has made me think the reason why DD had LF give Sansa to Ramsay to be raped was so that they could kill him off. I hope that doesn't happen as without him and Varys etc the whole thing becomes just a bloody long brainless swordfight.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Actually reading this thread and the general dislike for LF has made me think the reason why DD had LF give Sansa to Ramsay to be raped was so that they could kill him off. I hope that doesn't happen as without him and Varys etc the whole thing becomes just a bloody long brainless swordfight.

They probably just hate Littlefinger I reckon. Best way to get rid of him.

[A Ghost of Someone]

They probably just hate Littlefinger I reckon. Best way to get rid of him.

I think Gillen admitted to reading the books, that means show Finger is fucked.

[Hippocras]

Actually reading this thread and the general dislike for LF has made me think the reason why DD had LF give Sansa to Ramsay to be raped was so that they could kill him off. I hope that doesn't happen as without him and Varys etc the whole thing becomes just a bloody long brainless swordfight.

Nah, LF is transfering his skills before dying. I am very much looking forward to season 7 and 8 scheming Sansa.

[TheCasualObserver]

No idea? The man is literally a pimp, and that's what he did to Sansa to fool the Boltons into believing that he is "with" them.

 

 

 

 

What he's really doing is targeting them, just as he was with Cersei.

Yes, but what exactly would the Boltons trusting Littlefinger entail exactly? They already have what they want and have no reason to help Littlefinger now.

 

Also, since Littlefinger doesn't immediately get anything out of the match and the Boltons stand to gain everything, wouldn't Roose be extremely suspicious of such an arrangement? There is, after all, the well known expression @there's no such thing as a free lunch." Be honest with yourself; if Petyr Baelish came to you with a proposal that benefited strictly you and not him, wouldn't you think it was too good to be true?

 

 

There was at least one other Northern lord who was not an Umber in the casting call. It was a reasonable fit for Manderly if the show decided he doesn't need to be fat. I think all the stuff this past season about Sansa having friends in the North and the North remembering...stronly hints there will be some form of Northern rebellion.

Then where were the Northern lords at the wedding? We didn't see them, Sansa made no attempt to talk to them; at the point when they would most want to see Ned Stark's daughter, there are completely absent.

[Hippocras]

^ Because the show is doing the Northern rebellion in season 6. In the books, sure, it started before fArya and Theon's escape, but it has barely played out. Mostly it is a WoW storyline. So the show held off casting of more Northern Lords until they were needed. It is not so hard to understand. There is a Northern Lord who is not an Umber in the season 6 casting call. The description is a reasonable fit for a modified version of Manderly (not fat and possibly younger, but savy and scheming). If not a rebellious Northerner, this will be a Bolton ally, but IMO a rebellious Northerner is more likely. There is no requirement that they have been at Sansa's wedding for there to be a Northern effort to throw out the Boltons.

[TheCasualObserver]

^ Because the show is doing the Northern rebellion in season 6. In the books, sure, it started before fArya and Theon's escape, but it has barely played out. Mostly it is a WoW storyline. So the show held off casting of more Northern Lords until they were needed. It is not so hard to understand. There is a Northern Lord who is not an Umber in the season 6 casting call. The description is a reasonable fit for a modified version of Manderly (not fat and possibly younger, but savy and scheming). If not a rebellious Northerner, this will be a Bolton ally, but IMO a rebellious Northerner is more likely. There is no requirement that they have been at Sansa's wedding for there to be a Northern effort to throw out the Boltons.

Yes, but what was the reasoning behind the Boltons agreeing to the wedding if not a single Northern Lord showed up or added his forces to the Boltons? Did the Northern lords not care that Sansa was going to Winterfell? Did they not believe the Boltons? If they are willing to fight for Sansa in season 6 (which is the argument of the moment) why weren't they willing to go to Winterfell to see her wed?

[A Ghost of Someone]

^ Because the show is doing the Northern rebellion in season 6. In the books, sure, it started before fArya and Theon's escape, but it has barely played out. Mostly it is a WoW storyline. So the show held off casting of more Northern Lords until they were needed. It is not so hard to understand. There is a Northern Lord who is not an Umber in the season 6 casting call. The description is a reasonable fit for a modified version of Manderly (not fat and possibly younger, but savy and scheming). If not a rebellious Northerner, this will be a Bolton ally, but IMO a rebellious Northerner is more likely. There is no requirement that they have been at Sansa's wedding for there to be a Northern effort to throw out the Boltons.

Lord Whitehill? or a Karstark? = Bolton Ally

[A Ghost of Someone]

Yes, but what was the reasoning behind the Boltons agreeing to the wedding if not a single Northern Lord showed up or added his forces to the Boltons? Did the Northern lords not care that Sansa was going to Winterfell? Did they not believe the Boltons? If they are willing to fight for Sansa in season 6 (which is the argument of the moment) why weren't they willing to go to Winterfell to see her wed?

maybe the Boltons were not ready to trot her out until she was holding a baby Bolton that she delivered, in her arms to show everyone.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Yes, but what was the reasoning behind the Boltons agreeing to the wedding if not a single Northern Lord showed up or added his forces to the Boltons? Did the Northern lords not care that Sansa was going to Winterfell? Did they not believe the Boltons? If they are willing to fight for Sansa in season 6 (which is the argument of the moment) why weren't they willing to go to Winterfell to see her wed?

Maybe the wedding was rushed to make sure it happened. Maybe there was a budgetary reason why they couldn't get all those people in that scene. Maybe if they haven't cast a lot of the Northern lords by that point it wasn't possible to get them in, and maybe they just figured only a handful of people on the internet would spend their time worrying about it.