WWE Royal Rumble

[Joe Pesci]

Gotta agree with everything you said in the last two posts. The CWC is just phenomenal. NXT is going through a bit of a transition phase with the call ups but still have a promising roster and established wrestlers at the top who should already be on the main roster in Joe, Nakamura and Asuka. It continues to excel despite the steady turnover at the top of the roster over the last year.

As for the brand split thus far, I have to say I like how smackdown is being run much more than raw overall. Raw seems to have gotten even more "sports entertaining" while SD has somewhat steered towards the way of an actual wrestling program. Raw has KO though, so I'm not going to miss out on that.

[briantw]

4 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

Gotta agree with everything you said in the last two posts. The CWC is just phenomenal. NXT is going through a bit of a transition phase with the call ups but still have a promising roster and established wrestlers at the top who should already be on the main roster in Joe, Nakamura and Asuka. It continues to excel despite the steady turnover at the top of the roster over the last year.

As for the brand split thus far, I have to say I like how smackdown is being run much more than raw overall. Raw seems to have gotten even more "sports entertaining" while SD has somewhat steered towards the way of an actual wrestling program. Raw has KO though, so I'm not going to miss out on that.

I have to disagree about Smackdown.  The tag tournament has been godawful, and the women's division is terrible.  They never should have split both of those divisions, as there just isn't enough depth in either to sustain two separate divisions for each.  Smackdown basically has Becky, who is awesome, and then a bunch of garbage in their women's division, and the tag division is basically American Alpha and a bunch of teams no one gives a shit about.  The tag title finals are going to be between a team that has already been eliminated and a team formed by Heath Slater specifically for the tournament.  

I am also not a fan of Ambrose any more.  I've soured on him.  He just doesn't put on good matches, and his move set is shit.  I really hope they put the title on Styles and send Ambrose back to the midcard where he belongs.  Styles is the best wrestler in the company right now, and there are some good potential title feuds out there for him.  I feel like he and Orton could work a great match if Orton is motivated.  

I'm honestly not sure how Smackdown PPVs are going to work, because the roster is so paper thin that they are really going to struggle to fill three hours every month.  It was a big mistake on the WWE's part to not send another great worker like Cesaro or Zayn to the blue brand, especially since they're doing fuck all with Zayn right now anyway.

[Joe Pesci]

58 minutes ago, briantw said:

I have to disagree about Smackdown.  The tag tournament has been godawful, and the women's division is terrible.  They never should have split both of those divisions, as there just isn't enough depth in either to sustain two separate divisions for each.  Smackdown basically has Becky, who is awesome, and then a bunch of garbage in their women's division, and the tag division is basically American Alpha and a bunch of teams no one gives a shit about.  The tag title finals are going to be between a team that has already been eliminated and a team formed by Heath Slater specifically for the tournament.  

I am also not a fan of Ambrose any more.  I've soured on him.  He just doesn't put on good matches, and his move set is shit.  I really hope they put the title on Styles and send Ambrose back to the midcard where he belongs.  Styles is the best wrestler in the company right now, and there are some good potential title feuds out there for him.  I feel like he and Orton could work a great match if Orton is motivated.  

I'm honestly not sure how Smackdown PPVs are going to work, because the roster is so paper thin that they are really going to struggle to fill three hours every month.  It was a big mistake on the WWE's part to not send another great worker like Cesaro or Zayn to the blue brand, especially since they're doing fuck all with Zayn right now anyway.

SD was definitely given the weaker roster and while there are issues with getting the tag teams and women's divisions up and going with few credible options, some time is needed to see if anyone can gain some momentum outside of AA and Becky. I was speaking to more of the format of the show than anything, I prefer less of the skits/interviews/backstage segments.

Not putting the belt on AJ this Sunday would be a huge mistake. Ambrose can't carry the show despite being pretty over with the crowd and he could definitely use an upgraded set of moves. If it's not a brawl, he can't go with a great wrestler, and Styles is the top performer in the company alongside KO. Let him have a run while he's still on fire. Cesaro or Zayn would be much better served in Zigglers current spot, but both he and the Miz have upped their game since the split. The singles talent is there along with Bray, Orton and Cena.

I think after this first ppv it'll be obvious that SD should only run 2 hour ppvs with the current roster. But I'm sure they'll keep it at 3.

[briantw]

3 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

SD was definitely given the weaker roster and while there are issues with getting the tag teams and women's divisions up and going with few credible options, some time is needed to see if anyone can gain some momentum outside of AA and Becky. I was speaking to more of the format of the show than anything, I prefer less of the skits/interviews/backstage segments.

Not putting the belt on AJ this Sunday would be a huge mistake. Ambrose can't carry the show despite being pretty over with the crowd and he could definitely use an upgraded set of moves. If it's not a brawl, he can't go with a great wrestler, and Styles is the top performer in the company alongside KO. Let him have a run while he's still on fire. Cesaro or Zayn would be much better served in Zigglers current spot, but both he and the Miz have upped their game since the split. The singles talent is there along with Bray, Orton and Cena.

I think after this first ppv it'll be obvious that SD should only run 2 hour ppvs with the current roster. But I'm sure they'll keep it at 3.

Owens and Zayn should have a "Loser Leaves Raw" match and send Zayn off to be the top face on Smackdown.  A Styles/Zayn feud would be awesome.

[Joe Pesci]

6 minutes ago, briantw said:

Owens and Zayn should have a "Loser Leaves Raw" match and send Zayn off to be the top face on Smackdown.  A Styles/Zayn feud would be awesome.

For sure. Their in ring skills together would make for top flight matches night in and night out. After Nakamura and Joe finish their feud in NXT, it would be really wild if Joe was brought to SD and went after AJ. Though I'm sure Vince wouldn't let that happen with two guys who made their names in TNA, they would get great pop from the crowd.

[GrimTuesday]

You know, the way I have come to see it, it feels like Raw is something I have to watch, whereas Smackdown is the show I get to watch. I just find it so much more enjoyable. Sure, the roster is thinner, but I think that they have some real diamonds in the rough. I think The Ascension could be great (seriously, those guys could have been huge, but they got their legs cut out from under them hard), Hype Bros could be solid, I like the Usos as heels because I feel like it could finally give them some flavor (because they are good in the ring, just so boring), and boy if Heath Slater couldn't be a great midcard champion with the reactions he has been getting. I'm less high on the women's division (I think they should have put it on one show or another with the Cruiserweight Division on the other), but it could be good.

 

Man, the one thing Smackdown needs to do, is utilize Bray Wyatt correctly, because you can't keep fucking the poor guy over, because he is starting to ring hollow, and with his gimmick, that can't happen. I think I would like to see, at the end of the tag team match, have Eric Rowan and a returning Luke Harper come out and stomp the two teams into the dust, setting up a feud with them and the champs. Make them monsters, keep them strong, print money.

[briantw]

24 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Man, the one thing Smackdown needs to do, is utilize Bray Wyatt correctly, because you can't keep fucking the poor guy over, because he is starting to ring hollow, and with his gimmick, that can't happen. I think I would like to see, at the end of the tag team match, have Eric Rowan and a returning Luke Harper come out and stomp the two teams into the dust, setting up a feud with them and the champs. Make them monsters, keep them strong, print money.

I feel like Wyatt has basically been ruined at this point.  They had a chance to make him the next big bad guy, but he hasn't won a feud in what feels like years and it's to the point where he's just not even remotely threatening.  He's probably losing to Orton on Sunday because, let's be honest, Orton needs the win after the way they had Brock emasculate him at Summerslam.  I'm just not sure there's a path to redemption here unless they finally start booking him like he matters.  All he does is talk and talk and talk and then lose.

[Joe Pesci]

I was actually surprised that the ppv was passingly good. The matches were obviously dragged out but I didn't think any were really dull outside of the usos/hype bros. All the belts are on the right people for the moment. 

Spoiler

Becky winning makes sense, mainly because she's talented and really over, plus the Nikki vs Carmella feud wouldn't work if Nikki won due to Carmella being terrible in the ring. Looks like the Miz and Ziggler will continue for a while longer, they had a solid match and the Miz is one of the best on SD at the moment. Heath/Rhyno winning was pretty obvious to me, but somehow they've caught lighting in a bottle with this and might as well ride it out. Finally, AJ gets the gold. Granted they played up the low blow angle like it should bother him, but it won't. Can't wait to see where it goes. 

 

[briantw]

26 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

I was actually surprised that the ppv was passingly good. The matches were obviously dragged out but I didn't think any were really dull outside of the usos/hype bros. All the belts are on the right people for the moment. 

  Hide contents

Becky winning makes sense, mainly because she's talented and really over, plus the Nikki vs Carmella feud wouldn't work if Nikki won due to Carmella being terrible in the ring. Looks like the Miz and Ziggler will continue for a while longer, they had a solid match and the Miz is one of the best on SD at the moment. Heath/Rhyno winning was pretty obvious to me, but somehow they've caught lighting in a bottle with this and might as well ride it out. Finally, AJ gets the gold. Granted they played up the low blow angle like it should bother him, but it won't. Can't wait to see where it goes. 

 

My guess is the Usos take the tag belts from Slater/Rhyno sometime soon and begin the obvious title feud with American Alpha.  Slater winning last night got him his contract and now he can become a staple of Smackdown.

[SerPaladin]

Backlash was good, but thin. Then again, the SD roster is thin, at least they didn't throw much filler into things. My thoughts:

Giving AJ the strap so quickly was a mistake. I know the formula is "Face chases a heel champ", but Ambrose was the right guy to flip the roles and let the deserving AJ chase. The problem would have been that people are so used to the formula that they would have started cheering AJ when he eventually won. They need to keep him heel for Cena's eventual return. Feed him Orton next? Is there another credible face on SD besides Orton and Ambrose? Could Ziggler pivot back into that conversation?

I like what they did with the Tag belts. When the tournament started, it was all American Alpha. The Usos weren't even on the first couple SD shows. They could get mileage out of an American Alphas - Usos feud in which Slater/Rhyno keep the belts as the two "real" threats sabotage each other. Hype Bros and Vaudevillains are not there yet, and Ascension will never be there, you need a third player to keep it from going stale. Usos as heels are going to be good. (Fantasy booking... swap them with Gallows/Anderson, give Reigns a heel stable, reunite the Bullet Club, it's all good)

Good for them giving the belt to Becky. She's the lone highlight of a dregs division currently. She can keep the lights on while the other members of the division either rise into contention or fall off the page. Becky can pop an arena despite a poor challenger.

Miz continues to be the perfect chicken-sh** heel. No problems with the Ziggler match, sets it up for a continuing feud.

Problems: Here's how thin the SD roster is... Apollo Crews is the designated opponent when you need a break from your feud. It's only been a month and change since the split, but he's been in with Miz, with Styles, and now with Corbin. The roster needs a pair of up and coming faces to balance.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, SerPaladin said:

Giving AJ the strap so quickly was a mistake. I know the formula is "Face chases a heel champ", but Ambrose was the right guy to flip the roles and let the deserving AJ chase. The problem would have been that people are so used to the formula that they would have started cheering AJ when he eventually won. They need to keep him heel for Cena's eventual return. Feed him Orton next? Is there another credible face on SD besides Orton and Ambrose? Could Ziggler pivot back into that conversation?\

I disagree that it was a mistake.  This was the WWE striking while the iron was hot.  Styles is the best worker on the roster right now and just went over Cena a few weeks ago.  Having him lose to Ambrose would have been a momentum-killer, and it's generally a bad idea to kill someone's momentum when they're hot.  The WWE did this to Ambrose repeatedly over the past few years and by the time he finally won the title, people were starting to get sick of his lackluster in-ring work.

The obvious next step for Styles is a rematch with Ambrose, so that's one month.  If Orton ever gets out of concussion protocol, he could certainly be a next step, and Styles going over him would be a big boost for Styles.  I also think those two could put on a hell of a match if Orton is motivated, which he probably would be going up against someone like Styles who, unlike Brock, has no problem selling or making someone else look good too.  

I don't really want to see another Ziggler feud, but I also agree that Smackdown is pretty thin on faces.  Another potential solution would be for Zayn and Owens to have a "loser leaves Raw" match, sending Zayn to Smackdown for a while to tear the house down against with Styles for a couple of months.  Or maybe Cesaro wins his series with Sheamus and gets a deal for a title match of his choice, but then chooses the World Title and ends up on Smackdown (which is where he wanted to go originally).  They could also call up someone from NXT, like Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode, or even Nakamura.  If it's Nakamura, it could be a champion versus champion match like Owens had in his first bout with Cena where the title isn't on the line.  Still a viable, high profile feud even if the gold isn't up for grabs, and you could even have Nakamura win, which could set up a real feud later after Nakamura gets called up for real.

[Joe Pesci]

^^^Agree on Styles, there is no better time for him to have the title and he should have a solid run hopefully to WM next spring if we're lucky. Similar to Owens, he gets a huge pop even though he's a heel and has shown he can work with and put over anyone. They are the perfect champions to bring a legitimate claim to the whole "New Era" WWE is pushing. It's good to see them actually going with who is being backed by the crowds for a change.

 

[briantw]

15 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

^^^Agree on Styles, there is no better time for him to have the title and he should have a solid run hopefully to WM next spring if we're lucky. Similar to Owens, he gets a huge pop even though he's a heel and has shown he can work with and put over anyone. They are the perfect champions to bring a legitimate claim to the whole "New Era" WWE is pushing. It's good to see them actually going with who is being backed by the crowds for a change.

 

Now we just gotta hope the WWE doesn't book them both like shit, as is often the case with guys during their first championship run.  I guess we'll see the beginning of that tonight if Owens has to job to Reigns.  My personal guess, though, is that Rusev interferes and costs Roman the match, which sets up Rusev/Reigns for Clash and keeps the main event a singles match between Owens and Rollins (who I don't believe have ever wrestled a televised singles match in the WWE to this point, at least not that I can recall).

By the way, I really think that Clash of the Champions shouldn't be a PPV, but should be a "one night only" Network special where the champs from each brand meet in non-title singles matches.  

That would give us:
Owens/Styles
Miz/Rusev
Becky/Charlotte
New Day/Slater & Rhyno

That sounds like a pretty fun card with a killer main event.  Add in a couple of other Raw Vs. Smackdown matches and you've got yourself a two to three hour awesome card.

[SerPaladin]

Don't get me wrong, AJ is the right guy to be the champ. But storytelling is not the same as showing respect (yoo dee serv it), and with the right match, losing does not have to equal momentum killing. Credible feuds are the limited resource of the E, and Ambrose and AJ have been pretty damn solid for two weeks. Two weeks is a really quick payoff in wrestling. Think about baseball or nuns or nuns playing baseball, but slow down a little.

[SerPaladin]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

Now we just gotta hope the WWE doesn't book them both like shit, as is often the case with guys during their first championship run.

And then there is this. No Zayn or Jericho to feed Styles, so he absolutely will be booked like garbage until Cena returns. Ambrose rematch where Ambrose loses. Ziggler. Then we are down to Apollo Crews and a tweener Baron Corbin if Orton is truly concussed (and how exactly do you do a concussion test on Orton?)

[Joe Pesci]

43 minutes ago, briantw said:

By the way, I really think that Clash of the Champions shouldn't be a PPV, but should be a "one night only" Network special where the champs from each brand meet in non-title singles matches.  

That would give us:
Owens/Styles
Miz/Rusev
Becky/Charlotte
New Day/Slater & Rhyno

That sounds like a pretty fun card with a killer main event.  Add in a couple of other Raw Vs. Smackdown matches and you've got yourself a two to three hour awesome card.

This makes a ton of sense. I had a similar thought when they announced it. It would be a great way for them to have a bragging rights show to feed into the raw vs smackdown rivalry. I think they used the clash title prematurely in hopes of the name recognition garnering more interest for the first raw ppv instead of looking big picture. Could've done it at the end of June as the big ppv between WM and SS.

[briantw]

50 minutes ago, SerPaladin said:

And then there is this. No Zayn or Jericho to feed Styles, so he absolutely will be booked like garbage until Cena returns. Ambrose rematch where Ambrose loses. Ziggler. Then we are down to Apollo Crews and a tweener Baron Corbin if Orton is truly concussed (and how exactly do you do a concussion test on Orton?)

Well, an Ambrose rematch is expected.  Styles won dirty, and the champ generally gets a rematch regardless.  I don't really have a problem with that, provided AJ goes over as he should.

Orton is probably the best choice for Styles' first new feud with the belt.  Love him or hate him, Orton is one of the only regular roster guys who has some legit prestige.  He's one of the few stars the WWE has made in the past decade or so that is still around, and he's a credible world title threat at any given time.  If he's willing to put Styles over and deliver a barn burner match or two, I'd definitely go with him.  You could probably take that feud into the new year, at which point it'll be about time for Cena to return from filming his reality show to feud with Styles.

But when I said "booked like shit," I was referring more to how the WWE tends to make fresh champs look like total bitches all the time, aside from Roman Reigns who is pretty much always booked strong when he's not being punished for a drug suspension.  Rollins was a great example of this.  I'm fine with heels who cheat to win and even chickenshit heels, but you need the guy holding your top title to pick up clean wins once in a while to make the title and the performer look more legit.  Rollins never got that.  He basically cheated his way out of every match.  They even jobbed him out to Cena at one point (at Night of the Champions, I think).  

I fear they may go the same route with Owens and turn him into a chickenshit heel even though that has never been his character.  I don't mind how he won the title, especially since he clearly had no idea that was going to happen.  He's a heel and he took advantage of an opportunity that was presented to him, but he didn't plan it from the start so he didn't have to win on his own.  Owens should be a fighting champion who beats guys with his power offense and wears them down with his heel tactics, not a guy who constantly cheats.  Beating Zayn on Raw was a good start, but I'm curious to see if they job him out and make him look like Roman's bitch tonight or if they'll have the balls to have him go over Roman clean as he should.  I would be okay with some minor Rusev interference, simply to further that feud, but I don't want Rusev to win the match for Owens.

[GrimTuesday]

5 hours ago, SerPaladin said:

I like what they did with the Tag belts. When the tournament started, it was all American Alpha. The Usos weren't even on the first couple SD shows. They could get mileage out of an American Alphas - Usos feud in which Slater/Rhyno keep the belts as the two "real" threats sabotage each other. Hype Bros and Vaudevillains are not there yet, and Ascension will never be there, you need a third player to keep it from going stale. Usos as heels are going to be good. (Fantasy booking... swap them with Gallows/Anderson, give Reigns a heel stable, reunite the Bullet Club, it's all good)

I think that you're wrong about the Ascension. I think they could be a solid team if given half a chance. They were a big deal in NXT, but when they came up to the main roster, they got the legs cut out from under them. I like them either as henchmen, or as monster heels (I have something of a hard on for monster heel tag teams). I think that they have an interesting, unique look that is being misused. To your point about the Usos and Reigns being a heel stable, I really like that, and have actually been championing that for a while. I was really hoping that was where the very brief Bloodline team up was gonna go, but alas...

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

I think that you're wrong about the Ascension. I think they could be a solid team if given half a chance. They were a big deal in NXT, but when they came up to the main roster, they got the legs cut out from under them. I like them either as henchmen, or as monster heels (I have something of a hard on for monster heel tag teams). I think that they have an interesting, unique look that is being misused. To your point about the Usos and Reigns being a heel stable, I really like that, and have actually been championing that for a while. I was really hoping that was where the very brief Bloodline team up was gonna go, but alas...

I think the Ascension have been damaged to the point where they can't be redeemed.  And the WWE doesn't seem terribly interested in even trying to redeem them anyway.  What they need to do is just bring up Dash and Dawson from NXT and let them rule one of the shows.  They're one of the best heel tag teams I've ever seen.

[GrimTuesday]

30 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think the Ascension have been damaged to the point where they can't be redeemed.  And the WWE doesn't seem terribly interested in even trying to redeem them anyway.  What they need to do is just bring up Dash and Dawson from NXT and let them rule one of the shows.  They're one of the best heel tag teams I've ever seen.

I firmly think that no one is to damaged to be a player in pro wrestling, it just takes some work. They have to do is start booking them progressively stronger, stop having them job to everyone and their mother, and just make them look credible. I thought that their match against the Usos in the first round was pretty good, and though short, they looked like a credible threat for the time they were in control of the match. Sure, I'm excited to see Dash and Dawson on the main roster, but they fill two different roles, one doesn't have to block the other. I'm not saying that they have to be the top heels, just another team who you could conceive of holding the belts from time to time.