Jon Snow coming back as early as ep 1

[lordstewie]

you are right 100% but the show we have grown accustomed to more bizarre things that I would say illogical

Quote

15 minutes ago, Ben H'gahr said:

Hint:

Targs immunity of fire = fanfic

Jon in wolf = fanfic, at least in the show

Body used by Bran = really really complicated and weird, not a good story, just bizarre 

 

 

 

[Ben H'gahr]

On 4/7/2016 at 6:59 AM, Ibbison from Ibben said:

I think it's pretty obvious that Mel will attempt to resurrect Jon "Thoros-style" in ep 601 and fail. The show was very careful to drop the "Only death can pay for life" line in ep 510 - Jaqen said it. This will provide the ep 1 shock, and allow D&D to stretch out the suspense.

After defending Jon's body successfully, Edd and Davos can chuck it into an ice cell. That would leave lots of time for some Jon dream interaction with Bran and BR.

Ep 605 for Jon's resurrection sounds right. A sacrifice will be involved, perhaps Mel herself. It should take place at Winterfell, in front of the heart tree. (Ramsay, after killing Roose, marches against the wildings. Other northern forces take Winterfell through the secret tunnels that were pointedly mentioned in eps 210 and 504.)

If Jon learns about R+L=J while dead, he can come back as Jon Targ; that will be the explanation for all of Kit's "I'm not coming back" comments.

An ice-cell which was not introduced in the show: "We need to store a dead body for an unspecified amount of time for no obvious reason, despite the fact that we are having the tradition of burning our dead (and we are very traditional, especially those who have seen the evidence why this tradition is more appropriate than ever, i.e. Whights) Look, how convenient these never before mentioned ice-cells are for this purpose!"

Ice-Cells => looks like Deux-Ex-Machina for show casuals. I'm not sayin' it ain't happenin', but it would be suboptimal work by D&D to use this. Also, there is evidence that they don't use/show/introduce everything that is remotely mentioned in the books just for the sake of pleasing hardcore diehard book fans. D&D are very careful about what from the books they bring to the screen and what not, optimizing whatever their idea of a good show ice. Ice-cells don't look like a good candidate and I don't wanna attribute people w/doing bad work on purpose. Especially since the "Davos'n'pals defend Jon's body against Thorne'n'pals, try to burn it, Davos later returns to the pyre, he's gone [i.e. Davos speaking about Jon's body in the trailer]"-story is actually pretty neat, so why the roundabout ice-cells?

Also, I fear dead people don't dream - neither in this world nor on Planetos. How can Jon's spirit enter the weirwood.net to communicate w/Bloodrave and Bran? Will he "warg" into it? Or is this also explained by some Targ-Superpowers?

The heart tree speculation is just bizarre. Anybody ever considered how anti-climatic dragging around a corpse for five episodes is? What is this, Little Miss Sunshine in Westeros or what? "Hey, let's bring the corpse of our friend to the home where he grew up. The way from CB to WF is totally worth the risk and WF is not occupied by forces who wiped out his family at all. Then, let's try to conduct some bizarre ritual about which we have no idea if it's gonna work in front of a heart tree because for dramatic reasons" ... said no Black Brother ever. 

How exactly do these "northern forces" get ahold of Jon's body and why in the name of the old gods and the new should they carry it to Winterfell? Ah, because they somehow now that he's a real Stark (and those get buried in the WF-crypts), I see. 

[Ben H'gahr]

1 minute ago, lordstewie said:

you are right 100% but the show we have grown accustomed to more bizarre things that I would say illogical

 

You are the man and you in teh internetz for recognizing this.

On a personal level, I agree. But be careful w/these statements on this forum.

Not blindly hyping every decision of D&D makes enemies here. 

Question, but off-topic: If GRRM doesn't finish TWOW, do you think Danielle Steele could write a spin-off Missandei-Greyworm-lovestory?

[lordstewie]

19 minutes ago, Ben H'gahr said:

An ice-cell which was not introduced in the show: "We need to store a dead body for an unspecified amount of time for no obvious reason, despite the fact that we are having the tradition of burning our dead (and we are very traditional, especially those who have seen the evidence why this tradition is more appropriate than ever, i.e. Whights) Look, how convenient these never before mentioned ice-cells are for this purpose!"

Ice-Cells => looks like Deux-Ex-Machina for show casuals. I'm not sayin' it ain't happenin', but it would be suboptimal work by D&D to use this. Also, there is evidence that they don't use/show/introduce everything that is remotely mentioned in the books just for the sake of pleasing hardcore diehard book fans. D&D are very careful about what from the books they bring to the screen and what not, optimizing whatever their idea of a good show ice. Ice-cells don't look like a good candidate and I don't wanna attribute people w/doing bad work on purpose. Especially since the "Davos'n'pals defend Jon's body against Thorne'n'pals, try to burn it, Davos later returns to the pyre, he's gone [i.e. Davos speaking about Jon's body in the trailer]"-story is actually pretty neat, so why the roundabout ice-cells?

Also, I fear dead people don't dream - neither in this world nor on Planetos. How can Jon's spirit enter the weirwood.net to communicate w/Bloodrave and Bran? Will he "warg" into it? Or is this also explained by some Targ-Superpowers?

The heart tree speculation is just bizarre. Anybody ever considered how anti-climatic dragging around a corpse for five episodes is? What is this, Little Miss Sunshine in Westeros or what? "Hey, let's bring the corpse of our friend to the home where he grew up. The way from CB to WF is totally worth the risk and WF is not occupied by forces who wiped out his family at all. Then, let's try to conduct some bizarre ritual about which we have no idea if it's gonna work in front of a heart tree because for dramatic reasons" ... said no Black Brother ever. 

How exactly do these "northern forces" get ahold of Jon's body and why in the name of the old gods and the new should they carry it to Winterfell? Ah, because they somehow now that he's a real Stark (and those get buried in the WF-crypts), I see. 

I understand but mine was only one criticism to some choices in my illogical.
They could make other choices
the only other way I can think of is that it is not dead but in a coma, or believe that Melisandre has made a trade and what is not jon
How many other ways can still be there?
perhaps davos knows the Gendel and gorm tunnel? one of these leads there?
if it defends the body must have some reason

[Ibbison from Ibben]

15 hours ago, Ben H'gahr said:

An ice-cell which was not introduced in the show:

Ice cell doors were clearly visible in the tunnel in the very first scene of ep 101. Show, don't tell. (If those were storage chambers, the doors would probably be bigger.)

15 hours ago, Ben H'gahr said:

Also, I fear dead people don't dream - neither in this world nor on Planetos. How can Jon's spirit enter the weirwood.net to communicate w/Bloodrave and Bran? Will he "warg" into it? Or is this also explained by some Targ-Superpowers?

Jon's consciousness will obviously warg into Ghost, and be fully available for contact by Bran or BR. I can't really understand why you didn't even consider that. D&D have had a hard time with the direwolves (and done a poor job with Ghost in particular), but considering the possibility (in fact probability) of Jon warging into Ghost as "fanfic" is ridiculous. Weiss himself joked about the possibility once.

15 hours ago, Ben H'gahr said:

The heart tree speculation is just bizarre.

 

Not at all. The Winterfell godswood in the center of Stark power. All the foreshadowing points to Bran being involved in the resurrection. (Bran the Blessed from Welsh mythology was the owner of a resurrection cauldron. In Russian folklore, the Winged Wolf is a classic Fairy Donor that uses the Water of Life to resurrect the Prince that was murdered by his brothers.) Not to mention that we know the show had a casting call for a CotF who would need to do action scenes. Bran will no doubt have an extra member in his party.

Jon's body will be taken to Winterfell by Bran and Co., who are established as being south of the Wall in the trailer. It is clearly Meera who slits the throat of the Bolton soldier, and there is no reason for Bolton soldiers to be north of the Wall.

The fact that Carice van Houten is making such a big deal in interviews about Mel's Crisis of Faith would seem to imply that she won't have any successes early in the season. An early resurrection by fire seems quite unlikely as a result. An out-of-commission Mel coupled with the return of a very magical Bran is what the show is hyping. 

[Eugs]

What if she glamoured John to look like her and she did in fact sacrifice herself knowing that he was the chosen one?  Big reveal is that she's really John in disguise?

[BalerionTheCat]

She may have been talking about understanding that Stannis is not Azor Ahai reborn. The "what you think" is most likely doing something to resurrect Jon.

Concerning Ghost. He should be warged by Jon, until Jon is resurrected. There was a reference to warging after death with Orell's eagle. But it was not obvious Orell was inhabiting the eagle. The eagle was just aggressive with his master's killer. And until now, in Jon's case at least, D&D have not evidenced the mind-link between the warg and his wolf.

[239JMFL34109]

Honestly I get why they haven't been wasting time showing the arya and jon warging as it would be the kind of "shocking" reveals for later on in the show and keeps Bran's storyline more unique. 

[Ibbison from Ibben]

28 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

Honestly I get why they haven't been wasting time showing the arya and jon warging as it would be the kind of "shocking" reveals for later on in the show and keeps Bran's storyline more unique. 

I agree that they will opt for surprise. I would have liked to see a bit of wolf-dreaming from Jon. Maybe just once. Nymeria's wolf pack will be a nightmare for the vfx guys, of course. I hope we see it, but can understand avoiding it so far.

[239JMFL34109]

5 minutes ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

I agree that they will opt for surprise. I would have liked to see a bit of wolf-dreaming from Jon. Maybe just once. Nymeria's wolf pack will be a nightmare for the vfx guys, of course. I hope we see it, but can understand avoiding it so far.

I am surprised that we have not had one throwaway line from them waking up, shaken their head, and saying "wolf dream" 

[JonisHenryTudor]

There may be a consistency problem, or something likewise. Jon, according to the trailers, is lying on a table surrounded by his supporters and Ghost. They are going to have to bring him back before too long, otherwise it just won't make sense at all. 

 

Episode 8...."Um guys what are we going to do with this dead body?"

 

No, he will be back in E1 or E2, maybe E3. If they follow last years format of 1 episode at the wall and the north, the next elsewhere, and then return to the wall and the north...then E3 is probably when he returns. Or...the trailer is misleading, which is entirely possible, and the final scene of E1 is the scene with Davos near Jon. If E2 is the shows pov of the Wall and the North, I can see E2 ending with his revival.

 

Any longer than E3, and the idea of Jon's dead body just laying there is absurd. For one, if he is "dead is dead", then keeping a dead body with so much plot focus on a table is plain silly. Then there is the question of decay. The only possible explanation, and this would just be terrible, is that the entire season focuses on Mel having the NW protect Jon, because she is researching ways to bring him back.....

 

Also as some suspect that Jon will be fighting the Boltons (see trailer), it would be very odd for Jon to come back in E6 and then standing outside Winterfell by E7 or 8...

 

Jon's coming back early; by now the viewers only crowd has probably scoured the internet enough to know that Jon was never really dead in the books...so...D&D are not likely to waste too much time. The trailer already suggests that there is more to his story. 

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

I really can't see him being back in episode 1. The first big showing of the premier is tonight, right? I can't imagine that kind of a big spoiler would be kept quiet. None of the other episodes are being shown to critics though, so it is very feasible he will be back in 2 or 3. I can see episode 1 ending on a cliffhanger though seeing as how it is called The Red Woman and if there is going to be anything remotely "plot" related, it will be her involvement with Jon Snow's resurrection, rather than just reacting to the events of next season.

 

We should know one way or another by the end of the night I'd think at least.

[The Arthur Smith]

Only as a corpse and Mel's revelation on her faith.

[239JMFL34109]

There is a energy if you end the premiere with "we going to bring him back" in episode one and pay that off close to the middle of the season. 

[The Three Whores]

If you believe the guy that got to see the premier and then immediately went online to answer people's questions, then here is the answer to this topic if it hasn't already been mentioned.

Big Big Spoiler by the way for the first episode of season 6. Look at your own peril.

Spoiler

At the end of the first episode, Bran and the three eyed raven speak about how Jon is need, then they touch the weirwood and Jon magically wakes up.

 

[TheKitttenGuard]

27 minutes ago, The Three Whores said:

If you believe the guy that got to see the premier and then immediately went online to answer people's questions, then here is the answer to this topic if it hasn't already been mentioned.

Big Big Spoiler by the way for the first episode of season 6. Look at your own peril.

  Reveal hidden contents

At the end of the first episode, Bran and the three eyed raven speak about how Jon is need, then they touch the weirwood and Jon magically wakes up.

 

The Reddit and Imbd after the Premiere were proven to be false.

 

[The Three Whores]

36 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

The Reddit and Imbd after the Premiere were proven to be false.

 

How can it be proven false until we see the episode? Considering how quickly it got removed from the internet, I'm inclined to believe it to be true.

[TheKitttenGuard]

4 minutes ago, The Three Whores said:

How can it be proven false until we see the episode? Considering how quickly it got removed from the internet, I'm inclined to believe it to be true.

The screen capture one used for proof was shown to be from someone else.  I believe the actor who plays Raj from The Big Bang theories.

Other reports point more to info that will be later.

Believe what you want though.

[dRagonese]

On 4/7/2016 at 11:27 PM, Mr Smith said:

Firstly, they only become wrights (ie animated dead bodies), not white walkers. And it only happens to them if they are touched by the White Walkers, and given that there are none south of the wall, there's no real danger that Jon will rise as a wright. That aside, I suppose you could preserve Jon's body with ice if you really felt you needed to, but I doubt they'll go that way. I agree though, five episodes seems like a long time to leave his corpse idle.

where does it say you have to be touched by a walker to turn intoa whight. thats preposterous.  For all we know everyone who dies at the wall or north of it can be turned. I.E it being imperative Jon burned Ygrittes body, so she wouldnt come back as a wight. 

[239JMFL34109]

19 minutes ago, dRagonese said:

where does it say you have to be touched by a walker to turn intoa whight. thats preposterous.  For all we know everyone who dies at the wall or north of it can be turned. I.E it being imperative Jon burned Ygrittes body, so she wouldnt come back as a wight. 

In the show they do not have to be touch at all for sure and in the dance of dragons prologue that woman dies and becomes a wight without us ever seeing an Other.