Rippounet Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Jon, What if they could just "tone down" passion not eliminate it? Then we'd be something like Vulcans... I guess? We'd win a number of things (better technology and philosophy, a more evolved society... etc) and lose others (passionate love relationships, less art(ists), less partying... ). All in all, we'd have a better civilisation I suppose, but we wouldn't be able to enjoy it as much. It may be worth it, especially if you believe that we are currently wrecking the planet and jeopardising the survival of our species. But then such drugs already exist: anxiolytics, sedatives, anti-depressants... Technically it's already possible to feed ourselves a cocktail that makes us peaceful brainiacs. My sweet ex used to take all kinds of pills while completing her PhD. Worst. Sex. Ever. Today I'm with a super-smart girl that doesn't need pills to master her emotions, our relationship is passionate on all levels, and I think that all those pills are shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 well, since the texts of this thread arise out of science fiction, safe to say that sith passions are 'evil' whereas buddhist-maoist reserve is the preferred way? no drugs there, just discipline. given how it all worked out, maybe they needed the drugs after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo498 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Virtually every religion or philosophical school (even the supposedly hedonist Epicureans) had the mastering of violent passions, cultivation of virtues, and here especially moderation and self-control etc. as a cornerstone of its ethics. Of course this is/was supposed to be done not by direct manipulation like drugs or brain surgery but by "self-manipulation" through education, training, meditation etc. Certainly not as simply following rules impressed from the outside but a transformation of character. So the goal is old and venerable. But the short cut by forced medication or brain surgery and lack of consent are not. Clockwork Orange (I admittedly do not exactly remember the differences in ending between book and movie, I thought Alex fell out of the window (suicide attempt) hit his head and this reversed the treatment) is good and provocative because it shows what could still be wrong with such a treatment. However, one has also to consider the alternative which was life without parole or even death penalty in that world. And one would have to consider other less invasive "re-education" measures as well (e.g. prison + less invasive therapy). The treatment is too obviously wrong even for the most naive utilitarian if administered prophylactically. After all, most people are not all that prone to aggression and mastering impulses by education and other non-invasive measures has worked comparably well. So utilitarian calculus with sensible probabilities could not justify such a general prophylactic measure. It's not even an interesting question, I think. It might justify it in the case of Alex (and we have done similar things, e.g. chemical castration occasionally in our world). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Scot, even then there is no objective answer that you're getting better. A decrease in agression at a cost of a decrease in good passions is not the same as near-immunity for vaccinations compared to next to no side effects. The lack of that objective, massive benefit with negligible costs, is why I would be opposed to mandating it in any measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 probably easier just to make the most recalcitrant recidivists into isolated brains, perhaps housed in lovecraftian jars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 50 minutes ago, sologdin said: probably easier just to make the most recalcitrant recidivists into isolated brains, perhaps housed in lovecraftian jars. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Ratspaw/RichardNixonsHead.png Sort of like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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